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Old 08-01-2018, 10:38 AM   #11
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Hi Guy,

One thing I did was make war horses 3 hex figures. This makes them harder to engage.

One thing that TFT does not handle well is a cavalry charge against a row of guys. In real life the horse smash down the men and blast thru. In TFT the horses hit the zone of control of the thin line, become engaged and stop instantly.

Full charge at a maximum speed gallop to instant stop. I house ruled that a charging horse could ignore the engagement rules somehow, but never found a version that I really liked. (Hopefully you can. This is the key problem in the current TFT mounted combat rules.)

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:45 AM   #12
guymc
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Guy,

One thing I did was make war horses 3 hex figures. This makes them harder to engage.

One thing that TFT does not handle well is a cavalry charge against a row of guys. In real life the horse smash down the men and blast thru. In TFT the horses hit the zone of control of the thin line, become engaged and stop instantly.

Full charge at a maximum speed gallop to instant stop. I house ruled that a charging horse could ignore the engagement rules somehow, but never found a version that I really liked. (Hopefully you can. This is the key problem in the current TFT mounted combat rules.)

Warm regards, Rick.

As a matter of fact, it has been addressed. In the updated Mounted Combat rules, if a horse has moved more than 8 hexes in a single turn and then engages a single man on foot, the horse is treated as if it were a three-hex figure. Thus, the man is engaged, but the horse and rider are not.
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:55 AM   #13
Rick_Smith
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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Originally Posted by guymc View Post
As a matter of fact, it has been addressed. In the updated Mounted Combat rules, if a horse has moved more than 8 hexes in a single turn and then engages a single man on foot, the horse is treated as if it were a three-hex figure. Thus, the man is engaged, but the horse and rider are not.
Hi Guy,
As I said I've went to three hex war horses a while ago, and this is not enough. A line of infantry (one deep) can stop a galloping mass of warhorses at maximum speed when they hit the zone of control of the infantry and are engaged.

In real life you needed multiple ranks, with pikes or bayonets on the end of muskets in a hedge hog formation to intimidate the horses enough to back off.

Rick
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:53 PM   #14
Jim Kane
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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There are times when the horse really doesn't matter. But there are times when the roleplaying is lacking because you don't have that capability. The fact that the rules are there broadens what I might want to do with the roleplaying aspect of the game -- have a chase on horseback, face a mounted knight or armored cavalryman on the road, perform a rescue and escape on a swift steed. I wouldn't want to miss those moments, and they are worth the time to look over those rules and see how they fit the action.
Again, you have me smiling broadly and nodding enthusiastically.

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
It is fun when people treat them sort of like a warrior's familiar.
This is *beautifully* stated. When I think about all the things which Silver, Tornado, and Trigger did to aid The Lone Ranger, Zorro, and Roy Rodgers in their adventures - pulling them from quicksand, biting through ropes to free their captured masters, going for help while the master is trapped in a cave-in, kicking in locked doors, etc. *that* is exactly the type of play we missed out on doing with horses (as a trained follower of the PC - or The Warrior's Familiar, as Lars put it) which could have provided so much additional story-telling fun and color - for those who like their TFT action and adventure on the *pulpy* side.

JK

PS - And let us not forget Edgar Rice Burroughs' version of the same dynamic, with Tarzan and his favorite "horse" and familiar, Tantor, the elephant!

Last edited by Jim Kane; 08-02-2018 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Typo and Post Script addendum
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:04 PM   #15
Rick_Smith
 
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Default Re: How do you handle a mounted charge?

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Originally Posted by guymc View Post
As a matter of fact, it has been addressed. In the updated Mounted Combat rules, if a horse has moved more than 8 hexes in a single turn and then engages a single man on foot, the horse is treated as if it were a three-hex figure. Thus, the man is engaged, but the horse and rider are not.
Hi everyone, guy.
Thinking about this, it seems weird to me. No other critters get a "+1 hex in size" if they move 8 hexes. It seems a strange little patch to fix the problems that horses are hard to engage with guys on foot. 3 hex war horses (and those war horses were HUGE), is a better solution, IMHO.

But if this, "Move Fast & Increase Your Size", is going to be a thing, how about this:

Any figure who moves...
... 10 to 19 hexes in a turn gets +1 to their size (for engagement purposes). // A trot.
... 20 to 29 hexes in a turn gets +3 to their size (for engagement purposes). // A canter.
... 30 to 39 hexes in a turn gets +6 to their size (for engagement purposes). // A gallop.

So a small, two hex riding horse that is trotting is not engaged by a single footman.

A 3 hex war horse at a canter is not engaged by 2 footmen.

A 3 hex war horse at a gallop is not engaged by 3 footmen.

If a horse is not engaged by you and moves thru your hex in movement, you are knocked back as it brushes by you. Make a 3vsDX if it is cantering, or a 4vsDX if it is galloping. If you fail, you are knocked back one hex and fall. (And of course later horses could trample you in passing.)

Optionally, being knocked back could do 1d-2 falling damage.

Some rules like this, would capture the power of a cavalry charge.

Comments welcome!

Warm regards, Rick.

Last edited by Rick_Smith; 08-01-2018 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Optional rule.
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:27 PM   #16
JLV
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Again, you have me smiling broadly and nodding enthusiastically.

This is *beautifully* stated. When I think about all the things which Silver, Tornado, and Trigger did to aid The Lone Ranger, Zorro, and Roy Rodgers in their adventures - pulling them from quicksand, biting through ropes to free their captured masters, going for help while the master is trapped in a cave-in, kicking in locked doors, etc. *that* is exactly the type of play we missed out on doing with horses (as a trained follower of the PC - or The Warrior's Familiar, as Lars put it) which could have provided so much additional story-telling fun and color - for those who like their TFT action and adventure on the *pulpy* side.

JK

PS - And let us not forget Edgar RiceBurroughs' version of the same dynamic, with Tarzan and his favorite "horse" and familiar, Tantor, the elephant!
I'm totally with you on this, Jim and Guy, and, unfortunately, equally guilty of missing my opportunities in this regard. Of course, some of that is due to the fact that some of my players were much more interested in the Underdark than they were in above-ground adventuring (where the horse truly can come into its own), but that's no excuse for blowing my opportunities with other players. You guys are exactly right on this topic. Obviously, I need to sit down and re-read the rules and think my way through them better.

PS -- And Tarzan COULD have used a howdah! (Thanks, Jim, for letting me get that one in -- I was feeling left out of the "howdah" thing...) ;-)
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:38 PM   #17
Jim Kane
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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PS -- And Tarzan COULD have used a howdah! (Thanks, Jim, for letting me get that one in -- I was feeling left out of the "howdah" thing...) ;-)
If I could run a "GM Training School", I would make Tarzan of the Apes - Tarzan book #1 of the 24 books in the Tarzan series by ERB - *required reading* for all TFT GMs; solely to learn how to effectively describe with 5 senses: the jungle, the atmosphere, head-hunting savages, and the dangerous wild animals therein, with a pulse-pounding descriptive style.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 08-01-2018 at 03:48 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:20 PM   #18
JLV
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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If I could run a "GM Training School", I would make Tarzan of the Apes - Tarzan book #1 of the 24 books in the Tarzan series by ERB - *required reading* for all TFT GMs; solely to learn how to effectively describe with 5 senses: the jungle, the atmosphere, head-hunting savages, and the dangerous wild animals therein, with a pulse-pounding descriptive style.

JK
That one is definitely good. If, when being a DM, the player can just try to imagine him or herself in the scene being described, and remember all the things that he/she would see, smell, hear, and feel, it's easy to make the scene come alive. If you haven't ever BEEN in some of those situations, then taking the time to visit places that can simulate them for you is a must.

Unfortunately, I've been in deserts, jungles, swamps, mountains, arctic conditions and what not; however if you haven't, and can reach someplace like the Omaha Zoo (where they have bubbles of Jungle, Desert, Swamp, etc for the various animals to live in -- and which recreate those environments down to the relative humidity and the types of plants growing in them) it'll at least give you a sense for what that kind of terrain and environment is like. As far as dungeons go, you can visit places like Mammoth Cave or Carlsbad Caverns and get a sense for what it's like there -- at least to be in the deep underground. Besides, visiting these kinds of places is just tremendously fun! ;-)
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:29 PM   #19
Jim Kane
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

You are very wise my friend JLV, for that is exactly what ERB did.

ERB was a guy from Chicago (as a pencil-sharpener wholesaler) and studied the animals at the Chicago Zoo to learn how they moved, as he learned how to describe them to his future readers - and then within a few years, became a Gazillionaire.

JK
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:06 PM   #20
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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Originally Posted by guymc View Post
As a matter of fact, it has been addressed. In the updated Mounted Combat rules, if a horse has moved more than 8 hexes in a single turn and then engages a single man on foot, the horse is treated as if it were a three-hex figure. Thus, the man is engaged, but the horse and rider are not.
Advanced Melee page 30 already has that rule.

But it seems to me that not being Engaged is of no help at all for moving through a line of standing foes.

However by virtue of being a 2-hex creature, a horse at any speed (even engaged and shifting) could use a "push" during movement on any 1-hex figure who has an open hex to be pushed into (so a body of foes filled 2-hexes deep would prevent it ... somehow, not sure why except it's the rule), which gives a chance for the foe to fall down, though the horse still stops after one hex.
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