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Old 12-30-2009, 05:48 PM   #61
Phaelen Bleux
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

In my mind, generic cannon-fodder, red shirts, and campaign crunchies are ALREADY statted. . .they are called Vocational Templates.

For Big Bad Guys, just tweak or puff up the Template, or start from scratch.
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:54 PM   #62
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by riprock View Post
On the flip side, people who understat run the risk of turning a dice-based game with objective values into a storytelling game where all values depend only on the judgement calls of the GM.

The thing that drives me crazy about gamers is that many of them seem to think that less simulationist crunch is better for their game, and therefore everyone should play non-crunchy games.
You're confusing the position. "Not applying a point cost to traits" does not equal "less firmly-defined" or "less realistic". I'm perfectly capable of deciding that a thug has, for example,
ST 14, DX 11, HT 11, IQ 9,
Combat Reflexes, Rank (Mafia) 1,
Bad Temper (12), Duty (The Mafia) (12),
Brawling-14, Guns (Pistol)-13, Intimidation-13, and Savoir-Faire (Mafia)-13.

If our group's playstyle prohibts fudging, I never need to go outside these traits - if he needs to drive a car in a combat, I'll say "well, he doesn't have Drive, guess he's defaulting from DX".
Likewise, he's perfectly capable of fitting into a simulationist game. He's not very well-rounded as a person, but he's plausible as a guy who's super-focused on his job.

The point is, I have no idea how many points this guy costs, since I didn't bother to add them up. And I don't need to. Giving his point value wouldn't make it easier or harder to fudge his traits, and it wouldn't make him or less "realistic". Calculating his point value is a needless headache.
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:57 PM   #63
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

You know, you guys can do as you like, but I always stat up the major NPCs: the big bads, the major henchmen, the allies, the backup teams, the friends and family, and so on.

For one thing, the way I think about a character is by designing their stats. As I fill out the character sheet, the concept comes into focus.

For another, just picking out the important two or three scores and noting those down is all very well for a character who's going to do nothing but offer some PC a target to take down. But a lot of the time, I'm going to have an NPC keep coming back. I don't know what role they'll be playing on each of their future appearances. But when I look at the character sheet, I think of things they might try to do, or reactions they might have to a PC's action, which I might not remotely have thought of when I first created them. Having the full character sheet makes them, if not three-dimensional, at least two- rather than one-dimensional. This can lead to an NPC suddenly springing to life and entertaining the players.

My theory is that there should always be more of the game world and the NPCs than the players know about or than I have plans to use.

Bill Stoddard
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:01 PM   #64
Ragitsu
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

Uh uh. No one is saying you should or should not stat x bad guys for y campaign type. We just don't want it to be the first response barrage to any thread asking "How would you stat this?".
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:14 PM   #65
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
You know, you guys can do as you like, but I always stat up the major NPCs: the big bads, the major henchmen, the allies, the backup teams, the friends and family, and so on.

For one thing, the way I think about a character is by designing their stats. As I fill out the character sheet, the concept comes into focus.

For another, just picking out the important two or three scores and noting those down is all very well for a character who's going to do nothing but offer some PC a target to take down. But a lot of the time, I'm going to have an NPC keep coming back. I don't know what role they'll be playing on each of their future appearances. But when I look at the character sheet, I think of things they might try to do, or reactions they might have to a PC's action, which I might not remotely have thought of when I first created them. Having the full character sheet makes them, if not three-dimensional, at least two- rather than one-dimensional. This can lead to an NPC suddenly springing to life and entertaining the players.

My theory is that there should always be more of the game world and the NPCs than the players know about or than I have plans to use.

Bill Stoddard

I think I'm somewhere in the middle when it comes to this issue. I agree with a lot of what you say here. However, for an unimportant NPC such as a cannon-fodder goblin soldier or something along those lines, jotting down a few notes seems to be enough.

If for some reason that unimportant NPC becomes important, I'll create something of a personality on the fly, write down what improvisations I used in the notes and stat it out later. Typically my notes for unimportant NPCs include a bare bones stat block and a few simple details about what their motivations might be.

If I have the time to do more, I usually do. As I said in a previous post, I enjoy world building, so I do have a tendency to stat out a lot of things. However, if all I need is something quick to plug into part of the game, I just come up with something and jot down a few notes about how that something (or someone) should function.

Stretching the same topic a little, I also tend to use the same stat block for unimportant npcs which fullfill the same role. Most of the guards in town will probably have very similar stats without much of a written in stone personality. If a particular guard (for whatever reason) becomes important to what the PCs (or important NPCs) are doing, that guard developes and individual identity which I write down and keep for later.

All things considered, consistancy is important. If Gareth is the name of the guard who works the morning shift, that will still be his name the next time the PCs talk to him. On the other hand, lack of consistancy can work as a plot hook. If Gareth is the friendly guard who cut the PCs a few breaks here and there and suddenly he's replaced by someone else, the PCs might be interested in finding out what happened to him.
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:16 PM   #66
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
This can lead to an NPC suddenly springing to life and entertaining the players.
I've done that with characters with no stats at all written down for them ;)

(Often, with not more than a name written down for them ...)
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:37 PM   #67
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

I like to stat up the handful of plot-critical NPCs (villains, allies, etc) but other than that, I'll wing it as simply as possible.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:14 PM   #68
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

I vary a bit in how much I stat out NPCs; to some degree, it depends on how much I've already decided about who the NPC is. If a given skill isn't likely to come up, I probably haven't even thought about whether the NPC has that skill. If for some reason the unexpected skill comes up, I'll decide then whether it fits for the NPC to have that skill (and, depending on how things have progressed in the game, my concept of that NPCs personality may have already shifted).
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:35 PM   #69
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
.... and something that tells me a primary and secondary motivation for the NPC.
(Sorry Jeff, tis a tangent)

I use a matrix I found in Trav 2300 many moons ago to generate this. Might be a good basis for a Pyramid article.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:55 PM   #70
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip View Post
I use a matrix I found in Trav 2300 many moons ago to generate this. Might be a good basis for a Pyramid article.
Yup, same as that used in Twilight 2000: you used a normal deck of playing cards and read the card's suite and value. The suite gave the general type of motivation. The number cards showed varying levels of intensity, while the face cards had special meanings.
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Last edited by copeab; 12-30-2009 at 08:05 PM.
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