[Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by PK

You're already suffering a penalty to DX, which worsens your chance to use the weapon, so a penalty to ST that worsens your chance to use the weapon feels like double-counting (even if it is for two different reasons).

This works for me, and keeps things simple.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

This works for me, and keeps things simple.

Yeah. I was thinking that heavier weapons should suffer greater penalties when Grappled, but as Tomsdad pointed out that's already covered by the Close Combat penalty for Reach 1+ weapons. In this case the simple answer is probably the best.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Yeah. I was thinking that heavier weapons should suffer greater penalties when Grappled, but as Tomsdad pointed out that's already covered by the Close Combat penalty for Reach 1+ weapons. In this case the simple answer is probably the best.

One thing to look at, and why I suggested this sort of thing be tried in play, is that there are some cases where having someone grapple you (or your arm, whatever) seems like it doesn't impair weapon use enough. So there is a matter of taste involved, and what works for each group.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

One thing to look at, and why I suggested this sort of thing be tried in play, is that there are some cases where having someone grapple you (or your arm, whatever) seems like it doesn't impair weapon use enough. So there is a matter of taste involved, and what works for each group.

Maybe you could have CPs that directly (i.e not referred ones from Torso) apply to the arm holding the weapon could be spent to apply a penalty to ST in terms of MinSt on top of the rest.

As in you concentrating on not getting stabbed.

That way weaker grappler's can maybe buy a bit of time when being grappling by armed attackers.

But I'm also thinking of the two chaps grabbing each other's knife wrists, and those film scenes we are familiar with when our hero is under an opponent who bearing down on a sword, dagger etc.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Maybe you could have CPs that directly (i.e not referred ones from Torso) apply to the arm holding the weapon could be spent to apply a penalty to ST in terms of MinSt on top of the rest.

As in you concentrating on not getting stabbed.

That way weaker grappler's can maybe buy a bit of time when being grappling by armed attackers.

But I'm also thinking of the two chaps grabbing ach other knife wrists, and those film scenes we are familiar with when our hero is under an opponent who bearing down on a sword, dagger etc.

Pretty sure Technical Grappling p.12 is more than enough to cover this. If you lower their grip st to less than half what is needed, the weapon is unreadied and they cant attack with it. They have to use an action to try to get their grip st back up. Easy enough to visualize that as the two of you struggling over where the weapon is.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by chandley

Pretty sure Technical Grappling p.12 is more than enough to cover this. If you lower their grip st to less than half what is needed, the weapon is unreadied and they cant attack with it. They have to use an action to try to get their grip st back up. Easy enough to visualize that as the two of you struggling over where the weapon is.

Ah I always read that as being relevant to armed grappling with disarms or directly grabbing weapons. Drop that weapon! on pg13 would also seem to be relevant. TBH is was thinking of it as more of a tactic for weaker opponents or those in disadvantageous positions concentrating all efforts against one particular action of a stronger ones. I.e those who are not going to be able to get enough general CP's body against body, but may be able to get enough when concentrating all efforts and spending CPs on a single arm.

That said this will not be the first time TG has already got what I need I just needed to realise it!

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

That said this will not be the first time TG has already got what I need I just needed to realise it!

Yeah, it might be a little obtuse, but it would basically go like this: Grab either the weapon arm or the weapon itself, applying CP. This incurs the usual penalties for having CP applied to you. Next action, attack to reduce the weapon wielders CP on his weapon (which he gets Grip ST + Retain Weapon Training bonus CP free, plus anything he gathers on his own actions). If you get him down below half the weapons ST stat (not Grip ST, but the ST stat on the weapon line under equipment) its unready. GURPS Basic then tells you you cant attack with an unready weapon.

On his turn the weapon guy can attack to increase his CP on his weapon, and then ready his weapon. And so the desperate struggle continues, sweaty brows and gritted teeth and all.