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Old 01-20-2021, 09:13 AM   #21
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Two Shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
I would love a workup of locational fatigue. Sort of rules I'd love to read... although I'd actually never use them because they'd bog down the action too much while also requiring too much of a spreadsheet.
The way I figure, you'd only use them if you were also using high-crunch like tracking accumualted AP loss to limbs, and in that case you'd just track current FP/AP of your limbs alongside HP of your limbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
they could take into account things like how torso armor doesn't fatigue you nearly as fast as arm armor

carrying heavy weapons, using shields, etc because throwing all that weight around with your arms is just exhausting in a way that carrying it on your core isn't. Your core is just stronger.
and also how you could have arms too tired to throw punches quickly/accurately but be less gassed doing non-arm stuff like slams.

This next bit might be getting CRAZY crunch but there's even some element of that when comparing "lift my hand" vs "lift my elbow".

Your biceps could be tired out from constantly curling a sword/buckler yet your shoulders might be comparatively fresh so you could still lift your elbow to throw an elbow strike, for example.

I'm probably thinking on that too much though because biceps also help the delts to flex the shoulder...

I think I'm more thinking along the lines of "you can still do fast downward strikes after slowly lifting your limb/weapon" since gravity helps and your shoulder/elbow extensor muscles can remain relatively fresh since they don't have to deal with constantly supporting a load, only occasionally helping accelerate downward chops.

I was using DB2 shields. They rendered me completely blind to anything below eye level and still vulnerable to low line attacks. I think DB3 shields would be functionally impossible to duel wield, but even if they weren't you'd be essentially hiding behind a table and completely blind. DB1 shields would be far far more usable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
And as for the last point: they aren't counterbalancing eachother. They're both relatively to your front which requires different postures then you would normally adopt to hold up one shield, making everything very awkward.
I agree with you in standard way of holding a shield, I'm just picturing an exaggerated retracted-scapulae maximum external shoulder rotation stance where the centre of mass for the shields is actually slightly behind the spine instead of in front.

This would make the shields pretty worthless to stop frontal attacks but probably helpful in stopping attacks from side.

Especially "side" in GURPS terms which on the hex is slightly behind (ie not talking about the front-left and front-right, only the back-left and back-right)

Basically not like these two humans
https://i.stack.imgur.com/og176.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ttMojFU.png

but more like this elephant:
https://i.redd.it/qhp19qe8w4241.png

except not hunched-over because that would naturally have shields pull the arms forward causing tension on scap retractors and lower back to prevent.

Adopting a crouching posture should definitely make bearing a lot of burdens more fatiguing since if you're bending at the spine or hip you're relying on muscles to keep the spine/hip joints from bending further (gravity wants us full fetal position) to a greater degree than when fully upright when we use our bone leverage for energy efficiency.

If you're instead bending at the knees to stoop lower it's the same logic except with knee extensors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
I guess you might be able to adopt some sort of stance where one is held up in one direction and the other in and opposite direction and manipulate them mostly by spinning your core... but then the extra weight will create a lot more torque on your torso which will be harder to manage on whichever your "back" side is (if you're rotating clockwise your right side will suck and if your rotating counter clockwise your left side will suck),
Needing to rely on torso rotation to re-orient your shield cover would definitely slow you down and limit your options, I can see adopting a less-fatiguing dual shield stance coming with a realistic penalty that requires slower setup.

You could abandon it to react quickly but then you're automatically in a more-fatiguing position and would need to waste time following up to readjust your posture for long-term efficiency. There's be no point doing this in a battle under constant attack, it'd only make sense if you got regular breathers but needed to maintain shield cover because there's archers to the left and right and you don't have a bro at your back to do a synergistic shield wall (shield circle for 360 cover?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
plus you'd have to counter balance them so blocking with one would require a counterbalance motion with the other... idk. Maybe someone with a much better Shield skill and higher DX than me could figure it out.
You bring up a valid concern about how you this efficient posture limits/slows reactions.

I would say maybe you could so some kind of "resting posture" for shields which consumes fewer action points per second simply holding the shield up as cover as opposed to the quick adjustments you'd need to make in a short period of time either to react to an incoming attack or quickly reposition to prepare for an attack you expect to come in a short period of time.
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