Alternative Magic systems

[Murezor]

Hey folks - I'm sure many of you will see this title and think this topic is so played out. So, I'm sorry in advance if this seems repetitive or derivative of other posts.

First off, huge thanks to Refplace for all his help so far. He's already given me a great option to consider. I'd like to get some discussion going before I commit though - know all my options so to speak.

I've created a unique game world that can be best described as Burn Notice meets Call of Cthulhu in the late steam era. This is a single player game centered around a powerful mage who has been trained in a spy-oriented magical college. Magic "returned" about a century ago after a thousand years of having zero magic.

Mike, if you're reading this STOP HERE. SPOILERS to come.

Magic comes from an external source: the magisphere. I call it the Veil in the game. It's actually the remnants of a "dead" god who sacrificed himself to help protect the world from a dark god that desires to feed on human Will. Human access to magic was cut off about a thousand years ago by a group of human mages with the help of Elves. They did this because humans were overusing magic and it was weakening the Veil... causing fissures and allowing the dark ones in. The dark ones use a magic that is powered internally, from their will (or others). They have teleportation magic which is how Orks, Elves, and other extraterrestrials came to be in the world, but that's not important here. Now that humans have access to magic again, they are doing the same thing as before and once again these entities are entering the world.

The player wants something new and fresh (vs standard GURPS magic). He doesn't want it powered by fatigue - nor do I. Finally, he wants to be able to shape the magic as he castes. I.e. scaling it up and down, changing the number of targets, etc, etc. He also wants to avoid a lot of bookkeeping.

My first thought was to use the standard GURPS Magic system with perks and a threshold.. I planned on making this Path-based where there is one skill for the entire college and spells are techniques. Perhaps even adding sanity draining features in the calamity table. But I'm not sure this is fresh enough.. He has some serious beef with GURPS Magic. On a side note, I don't really like that you automatically know all the techniques for a given skill. I'd like him to learn new spells as he goes.

RPM seems like an obvious choice, but to be honest, there are two things that bother me about RPM: 1) the magic paths are a little too open-ended for my taste, and 2) I want a faster feel (vs taking dozens of turns raising energy) even with Ritual Adept.

I considered Sorcery but didn't really like the feel of Magic as Powers.

I really like the idea of Incantation Magic since you essentially store spells in your aura and that enables faster magic use. But this kind of gets into a bookkeeping exercise at some level. Plus, how do humans overuse magic in this system? It seems to be missing this element just like RPM.

I would be very grateful if you could share ideas and point me to existing Path-based alternatives to GURPS Magic. Again, thank you Refplace for your amazing help so far.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Murezor

The player wants something new and fresh (vs standard GURPS magic). He doesn't want it powered by fatigue - nor do I. Finally, he wants to be able to shape the magic as he castes. I.e. scaling it up and down, changing the number of targets, etc, etc. He also wants to avoid a lot of bookkeeping.

Magic pretty much is bookkeeping to one degree or another - you're not going to get out of that without also leaving some kind of magic behind.

Originally Posted by Murezor

RPM seems like an obvious choice, but to be honest, there are two things that bother me about RPM: 1) the magic paths are a little too open-ended for my taste, and 2) I want a faster feel (vs taking dozens of turns raising energy) even with Ritual Adept.

What you're looking for seems like RPM to me, yeah. Have you looked at Pyramid #66 ? It's the "mini-RPM supplement" most folks go to when they are tweaking RPM. In this instance I'd suggest you look at the Effect-Shaping option.

Originally Posted by Murezor

I really like the idea of Incantation Magic since you essentially store spells in your aura and that enables faster magic use. But this kind of gets into a bookkeeping exercise at some level.

That's just another form of conditional spell - you can swap that over to regular RPM with no issue.

Originally Posted by Murezor

Plus, how do humans overuse magic in this system? It seems to be missing this element just like RPM.

That is a sub system you add onto your magic system of choice - I'd probably say it seems like threshold or assisting spirits tacked on.

[Christopher R. Rice]

You might get some mileage from my blog for RPM. I talk about it quite a bit.

[maximara]

Various Books and Paths of Magic serves as a hub for various Paths (and three books). Most of these paths use Energy Accumulating rather then Effect Shaping.

[lvalero]

"Overusing" magic can be modeled as "critical failure". If you cast spells very often, sooner or later you will fumble your roll. The more often, the sooner.

You might create your own table of calamities or rule that, in a critical failure, the Veil is shattered and somewhere a "demon" (a monster, an entity, etc...) appears.

Let's suppose an organization of mages of 100 members using magic for tiny tasks that can be done with technology (like communication, food or transportation). They will fumble a lot of times, overusing magic.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Murezor

considered Sorcery but didn't really like the feel of Magic as Powers.

I really like Sorcery. One thing that many people forget is that Sorcery does have improvised spells as part of the system.

[Murezor]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Magic pretty much is bookkeeping to one degree or another - you're not going to get out of that without also leaving some kind of magic behind.

Thank you for your reply! Yeah, I understand. He's mainly referring to tracking money/assets (he prefers a CoC approach with credit rating) and the kind of math involved in RPM. All spells would need to be created up-front and NOT on the fly for him to be happy.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

What you're looking for seems like RPM to me, yeah. Have you looked at Pyramid #66 ? It's the "mini-RPM supplement" most folks go to when they are tweaking RPM. In this instance I'd suggest you look at the Effect-Shaping option.

I looked at it again and I think I finally understand Effect Shaping. There's no mana cost at all - it's purely a skill role if I understand it correctly. Seems perfect, though if he is to change the spell on the fly, he will either need to do some quick math or some quick conversion that dictates the additional skill penalty.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

That is a sub system you add onto your magic system of choice - I'd probably say it seems like threshold or assisting spirits tacked on.

Okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding something but neither of these seem to work with Effect Shaping. Am I off base here?

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

You might get some mileage from my blog for RPM. I talk about it quite a bit.

Good stuff. Thank you. Though it looks like most content requires Patron. I'm ok with that, but do you have any RPM articles that don't so I can get a flavor?

Originally Posted by lvalero

"Overusing" magic can be modeled as "critical failure". If you cast spells very often, sooner or later you will fumble your roll. The more often, the sooner.

You might create your own table of calamities or rule that, in a critical failure, the Veil is shattered and somewhere a "demon" (a monster, an entity, etc...) appears.

Let's suppose an organization of mages of 100 members using magic for tiny tasks that can be done with technology (like communication, food or transportation). They will fumble a lot of times, overusing magic.

Wow! That's actually quite good. I like it.

I didn't mention this before, but I was thinking that somewhere along the line the player learns some kind of new magic that enables even more power. For example, if I just went with threshold magic, then incantation magic (slotting spells ahead of time) could be something he learns from the elves or something. Assuming I go with Effect Shaping - which seems superior to incantation magic in most ways - do you have any ideas on what could be a superior form of magic? It might be something the elves use that is more powerful and more balanced? (thinking out loud here)

[Murezor]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I really like Sorcery. One thing that many people forget is that Sorcery does have improvised spells as part of the system.

I may need to reread this.

[Murezor]

Originally Posted by maximara

Various Books and Paths of Magic serves as a hub for various Paths (and three books). Most of these paths use Energy Accumulating rather then Effect Shaping.

Thanks for the reply - I'm really trying to avoid energy accumulation unless I use incantation magic.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Murezor

Thank you for your reply! Yeah, I understand. He's mainly referring to tracking money/assets (he prefers a CoC approach with credit rating) and the kind of math involved in RPM. All spells would need to be created up-front and NOT on the fly for him to be happy.

There are a LOT of spells out there to pick and choose from. DF19 spells can be easily converted to RPM - here's the list of the official stuff (from this thread):

3/43 Thaumatology III - Bottled Magic
3/48 Secret Magic - Magical Tradecraft
3/56 Prehistory - The Old Ways
3/66 The Laws of Magic - Alternative Ritual Path Magic
3/66 The Laws of Magic - Ritual Path Specialists
3/66 The Laws of Magic - Repercussive Rituals
3/75 Heroes Jackpot - A Familiar Path
3/109 Thaumatology V 0 Designers Notes: Incantation Magic (Related to, but not exactly RPM)
3/110 Deep Space - Aethyric Space
3/114 Mind Over Magic - Incanter's Grimoire

Originally Posted by Murezor

I looked at it again and I think I finally understand Effect Shaping. There's no mana cost at all - it's purely a skill role if I understand it correctly. Seems perfect, though if he is to change the spell on the fly, he will either need to do some quick math or some quick conversion that dictates the additional skill penalty.

Right, each 10 points of energy translates over to a -1 in rolls to your skill. As long as you succeed your skill roll the spell happens. If you're worried about "on the fly" effects I suggest you grab How to Be a GURPS GM: Ritual Path Magic - there is a rule in there to limit spells to those you are familiar with.

Originally Posted by Murezor

Okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding something but neither of these seem to work with Effect Shaping. Am I off base here?

They work just fine. Each system is just added on. For Effect-Shaping RPM you still need to know the amount of energy so you can determine the spell's penalty. Simply take that value and consult the box "Other Systems" on p. 6 of Pyramid #3/66: The Laws of Magic. For example, if you were using Corrupting spells then each -1 penalty inflicts 2 points of Corruption. You can of course adjust that up or down to taste.

Originally Posted by Murezor

Good stuff. Thank you. Though it looks like most content requires Patron. I'm ok with that, but do you have any RPM articles that don't so I can get a flavor?

Absolutely. This month we have miscellaneous RPM spells and coping with campaign fails.. Some samples:

Here's a free to all special about light spells for RPM.

Here's my version of Prismatic Spray from DnD for DF19.

Here's some anti-magic RPM spells.

Note, that my Patreon is on a monthly cycle - you get the stuff for that month and then it goes away until y'all vote to release to all or bring it back for the month. If you have questions about what is available please DM or email me.