ESPionage/Cold War and Psionic Powers

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Yeah. I grew up with transcendental meditation and in the culture you're talking about. Went to Maharishi School of the Age of Enlightenment. Had EEGs strapped to my head to measure my brainwave coherence while practicing meditation several times. Have also done the courses to learn the advanced techniques for training up ESP, flight, etc. If you want more of this feeling then I can definitely make more suggestions, in GURPS terms as well as metaphysics suggestions, about a thing or two the Psionic powers book is missing.

Maybe not in this thread, but that would definitely be something interesting to see. As good as it was, I felt like the Psi Powers book was missing some things, from fictional psi and "real life" psi.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Maybe not in this thread, but that would definitely be something interesting to see. As good as it was, I felt like the Psi Powers book was missing some things, from fictional psi and "real life" psi.

Discuss away. Could be useful for my setting. :-)

[DangerousThing]

What about using Threshold Limited for Psionics?

For it to work, any psionics use would need to add one to the threshold. And the problem table would obviously have to be altered. However, the concept might fit the fiction of those times. You don't get backlash if you keep your usage of your powers below a certain level.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

What about using Threshold Limited for Psionics?

For it to work, any psionics use would need to add one to the threshold. And the problem table would obviously have to be altered. However, the concept might fit the fiction of those times. You don't get backlash if you keep your usage of your powers below a certain level.

Hmmm. Maybe. But you did give me an idea I'm going to use. I'm going to create a variation of Extra Effort that inflicts afflictions on the subject for bonuses to the roll. That way I don't have to muck with Power Modifiers much more than I am and still get "I stare at him so hard I start to get a nosebleed so I can Mental Stab him."

[Christopher R. Rice]

A box from the setting bible:

Afflicted Extra Effort and Skill
Psis in popular culture are full of throbbing foreheads, bloody noses, and similar “psychic backlashes.” To emulate this use the following:

• Affliction for Power: When using extra effort to increase the potency of a given ability instead of a penalty to the Will roll or in addition to it choose from among Attribute Penalty, Incapacitation, Irritant, and Stunning (p. B35). Each +10% of enhancements lets the psi ignore -1 in penalties to increase a power’s level. This can never give a bonus to rolls and may not be combined with Affliction for Skill.
• Affliction for Skill: As above, except the psi can trade +10% in enhancements for a +1 to psi skill rolls. The maximum bonus is +4 or the character’s Power Talent plus one, whichever is greater.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

That's an interesting thought. I should raid Thaumatology for more ideas like that. It would produce something like what we think psi works like. Yes, indeed.

Without going too deep into details that I promised to keep secret as part of learning about it, it's not outside of the realm of consideration for that wild talent to also be treated as having retention (or pseudo-retention), and for meditating enough to do it to be how you practice and learn new abilities. We'd go on courses then involved constant meditation for most of our time in order to prepare ourselves to learn new advanced techniques. And if we went on meditation heavy retreats we'd carry that lingering sense of it back out into life. People talked about drawing on that lingering connection to the deeper levels of consciousness to do things, mostly things that psi would call probability alteration but not exclusively.

One thing that was pretty staple was that literally any development of "higher states of consciousness" or the abilities that go with them involved developing ESP and unconscious Probability Alteration as a baseline. Without some ESP other stuff wasn't going to happen because abilities are based in consciousness, awareness. So naturally cultivating that would lead to, but also be necessary for, other psychic powers. We also believed that the more you did that the more the universe would align with your will naturally, essentially amounting to probability alteration that is unconscious (although it was certainly also believed that religious rituals could be used to do that intentionally, and that it could be done intentionally via the Meditation Devotion and Holiness ER.)

Powers often involved sutras, but certainly not necessarily: it was also believed that individuals would develop powers on their own based on the individual prior to complete enlightenment (the attainment of "cosmic" power mod, the illumination advantage, and the ability to use all powers whenever you want.) My mother swore she could put someone to sleep by putting her hand on their forehead and focusing for a few seconds (to be fair, I've never seen it not work for her) and that was definitely not one of the things we were taught to do. Most people believed they had some of their own gifts that weren't the ones we were taught.

We also didn't really believe in anti-powers. We believed that psi powers required Disciplines of Faith (contemplation) or something like it: meditate for half an hour to an hour twice daily, practice a good routine that doesn't involve saying up too late every night or substance use, etc. We notably did believe in psychotronics though. Both biotech ones like drugs that inhibit powers or herbal concoctions that assist, electronic ones like EEGs for measuring when someone was using powers, and esoteric stuff like that how buildings were set up would influence the use of powers within the building (and especially the long term ability to develop them!)

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

One of the things I'm allowing is Reality Control as a psi power. I'm still trying to decide how to treat it. I'm not a fan of Illusion for this. It produces too big a result for too little. I think I'll end up using a version of Godlike Control suitably altered and defined.

I agree. As much as I think that ability is a very clever build, and as much as I like using broadcast with mental illusions for a lot of other potential "psychic" illusion builds, it's really really cheap for what it does. Also actually a bit hard to conceptualize what the clear limits of what it can do are, and there are clear limits.

I probably would replaced it with a snatcher build, plus some natural phenomena controls.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

*snip*

MOST useful. Thank you. :-)

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

I agree. As much as I think that ability is a very clever build, and as much as I like using broadcast with mental illusions for a lot of other potential "psychic" illusion builds, it's really really cheap for what it does. Also actually a bit hard to conceptualize what the clear limits of what it can do are, and there are clear limits.

I probably would replaced it with a snatcher build, plus some natural phenomena controls.

I think a form of Godlike Control at about 60 points/level could work. It'll just require a LOT of spelling out exactly what it can do. Not that that is a problem.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

MOST useful. Thank you. :-)

You're totally welcome. I'll think about it more and see if I can think of anything else that I could share to continue moving in that direction.

EDIT: I thought of something: on the front of astral projection and vision we did not explicitly believe in supernatural entities but we also definitely believed in supernatural entities. Particularly spirits. There were essentially three types (in my personal understanding and experience):
1. Devatas. I'm using the hindu phrase for these entities, and the specific community I grew up in definitely favored hindu mythology, but we also believed that they were not religion specific and that the underlaying "entities" were actually just forces of nature that were being perceived as personified and culture specific by the individual. Thus an individual who favored hinduism would see perceive the protective thread of the divine consciousness that is the fabric of reality as Ghanesh or Vishnu, but a Christian would perceive that same dynamic as St. Micheal. Concreate aspects of nature like rivers might be seen as devatas or nymphs or whatever, less concreate ones like protection are usually higher order, etc. However, these are not actually free willed entities. They are that aspect of reality personified, and have consciousness because everything is consciousness.

2. The souls of individual people. Constantly reincarnating, but often with breaks inbetween, until their personal wave of consciousness expands to rejoin the cosmic ocean of consciousness. (I... am trying not to use too much jargon but that definitely sounds like jargon...)

3. Tulpas. Intense emotions, ideas, beliefs, etc that come from people and are made manifest by people. Whether the personification and seeming will of type 1 entities are because of this is definitely debated. "Demons" are usually from this source. We generally assume anything really "evil" isn't inherently natural. The same teachers who don't ever talk about spirits or religion at all still advise not to personify negative feelings or ideas, particularly ones in culture, to avoid creating these. They tend to go after their creators the most when evil.

It would be safe to consider all 3 to essentially be tulpas, sometimes even self-created in the case of ghosts. Particularly if you don't want to fully embrace the idea of a subjective reality.

All such entities are more of a concern for psi's then for non psi's. They can exert more direct influence on those who have awareness. On other entities they can only exert subtle influence, but they can directly attack or even possess psi's (or heal them / make them more powerful / give them courage).

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I think a form of Godlike Control at about 60 points/level could work. It'll just require a LOT of spelling out exactly what it can do. Not that that is a problem.

Yeah. For sure. I'd personally prefer splitting it up into smaller more specialized abilities, but that's literally just because it's easier for my brain to work through all of it and hold it all.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Maybe not in this thread, but that would definitely be something interesting to see. As good as it was, I felt like the Psi Powers book was missing some things, from fictional psi and "real life" psi.

I'm posting about a lot of it, but if you want to ask questions feel free!

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

I thought of something: on the front of astral projection and vision we did not explicitly believe in supernatural entities but we also definitely believed in supernatural entities. Particularly spirits. There were essentially three types (in my personal understanding and experience):
1. Devatas. I'm using the hindu phrase for these entities, and the specific community I grew up in definitely favored hindu mythology, but we also believed that they were not religion specific and that the underlaying "entities" were actually just forces of nature that were being perceived as personified and culture specific by the individual. Thus an individual who favored hinduism would see perceive the protective thread of the divine consciousness that is the fabric of reality as Ghanesh or Vishnu, but a Christian would perceive that same dynamic as St. Micheal. Concreate aspects of nature like rivers might be seen as devatas or nymphs or whatever, less concreate ones like protection are usually higher order, etc. However, these are not actually free willed entities. They are that aspect of reality personified, and have consciousness because everything is consciousness.

That's very interesting. I came across a lot of stuff like this in my youth as I searched for Truth. Reminds me of the summer I spent with a hoodoo conjure woman.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

2. The souls of individual people. Constantly reincarnating, but often with breaks inbetween, until their personal wave of consciousness expands to rejoin the cosmic ocean of consciousness. (I... am trying not to use too much jargon but that definitely sounds like jargon...)

This will be a thing in the setting. The Wheel is real.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

3. Tulpas. Intense emotions, ideas, beliefs, etc that come from people and are made manifest by people. Whether the personification and seeming will of type 1 entities are because of this is definitely debated. "Demons" are usually from this source. We generally assume anything really "evil" isn't inherently natural. The same teachers who don't ever talk about spirits or religion at all still advise not to personify negative feelings or ideas, particularly ones in culture, to avoid creating these. They tend to go after their creators the most when evil.

Same with this. But Tulpas tend to be direct creations of dreams that sometimes become real and go off on their own in the Dreamlands or rarely the real world.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

It would be safe to consider all 3 to essentially be tulpas, sometimes even self-created in the case of ghosts. Particularly if you don't want to fully embrace the idea of a subjective reality.

All such entities are more of a concern for psi's then for non psi's. They can exert more direct influence on those who have awareness. On other entities they can only exert subtle influence, but they can directly attack or even possess psi's (or heal them / make them more powerful / give them courage).

Reality in Dream Wars is kind of subjective, very consensual, and at the same time neither. So that fits with other themes.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Yeah. For sure. I'd personally prefer splitting it up into smaller more specialized abilities, but that's literally just because it's easier for my brain to work through all of it and hold it all.

I think what I'm going to do is create a variant of Illusion by stacking on inherent modifiers in it and then raising the base cost. It's the base cost I have issues with mostly, not the idea of it being used in a way to muck around with reality.