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Old 10-07-2019, 01:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Yes, it's safe to assume that an "always present" summonable ally can be summoned in a second, although it probably won't stay long if you are summoning a water elemental in a volcano.
Yeah, I agree; reminds me of the yeti in from the looney tunes (LOL).
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

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Originally Posted by Hide View Post
Under the basic advantage guidelines, I buy no roll required and that is all.
Normally you would roll against their availability number after you make the concentrate maneuver rather than at the start of the adventure for non-summonable allies, so there wouldn't be a roll to begin with if you set the availability to always, which is the most expensive option for an ally.

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This means The NPC is always present; if you dismiss it, IMO it goes somewhere else w/o actually leaving you. For example, it goes a parallel dimension or becomes part of your own energy, your soul, etc.
Do you figure un-summoning an ally would take the same amount of time as summoning them? Or would you allow them to be dismissed as a free action instead of taking a concentrate maneuver?

I was thinking that whatever is set as the default time (1 second? 10?) that 'reduced time' enhancements could be bought to reduce the delay between the activation (a concentrate maneuver) and the effect (the ally appearing).

Given that "no roll required" is 100%, equal to buying 5 levels of Reduced Time, wouldn't that reduce 10 seconds (if we assumed that to be the default for summonable allies) to 5>3>2>1>0 and make it 0-delay?

Being able to instantly port-in and port-out allies would make it very easy to protect them as well as position them in good strategic places (kind of like Affliction: Warp) so that should be taken into consideration to.

Perhaps a roll to hit (like with affliction) should be made when summoning/unsummoning allies to see if you correctly place them where you intend?
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

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(...) Being able to instantly port-in and port-out allies would make it very easy to protect them as well as position them in good strategic places (kind of like Affliction: Warp) so that should be taken into consideration to (...)
Summoning an ally, in my play-experience, takes only 1 second; the concentrate maneuver is replacing a regular attack maneuver. And if you are not under stress, time is irrelevant. I have always treated dismissing an ally as a free action, it’s on the basic book.

Your advantage “ally” could be explained (flavored) as the result of a magical power or anything else; however, it remains the same advantage, nothing changes about it.

On the other hand, using “true-magic” to bring/summon/conjure an ally (for example, ritual path magic), could take more than 1 second if not properly assessed (or if not built for quick summoning). But in essence, this is different than the ally advantage.

Taking care of an ally is not an easy task. I will put this to an extreme to make it obvious:

The ally advantage is very expensive when you buy all the enhancements to make it work smoothly (minion, no roll required, summonable, special abilities, 150% CP pool, does not eat, does not sleep, does not breathe, etc.). As I see it, if you paid a lot of points for your ally then you sacrificed a good share of your CP budget; this might detriment your proficiency as a player character. In other words, you need your ally to fulfill special roles for you, and you are incomplete when your ally is away.

The GM can deal with you ally, easily. You have to be conscious of danger to dismiss a summonable ally. Sometimes you cannot fight alone. If you dismiss your ally to protect it, then you are dead. On the other hand, in combat you need to wait for your turn to dismiss you ally. In the meantime, you and your ally could be set apart by a trap or a plot (then you cannot dismiss it), maybe the monsters decide to target your ally first or perhaps it is so easy killing you that your ally does not matter as a target, maybe there is no space to summon your ally, etc.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

If it's possible to stop an ally from being dismissed by some distance, that's why I thought you could base that on how "Cancellation" works for affliction, that you have to basically hit the Ally with a "dismissal beam".
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

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If it's possible to stop an ally from being dismissed by some distance, that's why I thought you could base that on how "Cancellation" works for affliction, that you have to basically hit the Ally with a "dismissal beam".
It depends, I think that would make things more difficult than needed.

First, as long as your ally is physically present, then the ally disappears if you can wish/command it. If you are worried about the range, 10 yards seem OK; this is the range of the “combat teleport” (GURPS – Powers) and it still qualifies as “nearby” to me. I say “nearby”, because I feel that’s within the spirit of the basic book when it describes how a summonable ally works.

Personally, I’d allow extending the dismissal range if the ally and the master have other supernatural power-ups such as the one from your example, or even trough “remote-control” abilities such as mind-link with tele-send; however, these would be a power ups, “paid” alternatives to what you can normally do.

Side note:

Maybe I did not completely explain myself about the stuff that might prevent a player from dismissing an ally. It is not necessarily about someone physically restraining you or going against your will.

Scenarios that might prevent you from dismissing such type of allies can range from mundane to otherworldly, and should be easy to manage as a GM; besides being knocked out or paralyzed, it is about do or die situations like choosing between your ally and your comrades, planar restrictions like entering a portal while your ally cannot, following a plan in which you willingly agree to have your ally support a group other than yours (e.g. splitting in teams), etc.
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

One thing I like about making to-hit rolls both to place a newly summoned ally or to try and dismiss them is that the potential for a miss (I accidentally summoned my skeleton into the river) is fun and would give ways to make it more expensive by buying stuff like Accurate or having them spend time taking an Aim maneuver to prep for summoning their ally.

My mind is kind of drifting to how Pokeballs work now, I think there have been times that Ash tried to recover a pokemon but missed them with the beam and couldn't get them back into a ball right away.
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

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(...) my mind is kind of drifting to how Pokeballs work now, I think there have been times that Ash tried to recover a pokemon but missed them with the beam and couldn't get them back into a ball right away.
Oh the pokéball, you should have started with that. If you want to summon Pokémon with pokéballs, take "requires material component" and a partly limited "weaponized" limitation (about -25%).

This means you need the pokéball to summon/un-summon the Pokémon, and that you have to use the skill "use pokéball" to summon/retrieve the Pokémon.

The quick contest (of will) applies when your Pokémon refuse leaving or entering the pokéball.

You will find these in GURPS Power Ups - Limitations.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

Using that example (which isn't exactly the ultimate intent here, just helps when discussing targeting) "use pokeball" would be an all or nothing skill to decide whether or not a summoning happens...

During the initial "I choose you" thing, for the most part I think I've seen the pokemon just appear a hex or two in front of its owner, but say it was possibly to target that "release laser" to various places. Basically aiming where it is your summoned minion to appear.

For example in Diablo 1 if you had the spell Golem, you could click where you wanted the Golem to appear and it would, unless of course you did it so quickly that you timed it wrong and right-clicked when your cursor was in the wrong spot. D2 also had an "Unsummon" attack which wouldn't work unless you correctly targeted your minion with your cursor, much like you need to make an attack roll to use Cancellation for Afflictions.
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Old 10-13-2019, 11:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

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Using that example (which isn't exactly the ultimate intent here, just helps when discussing targeting) "use pokeball" would be an all or nothing skill to decide whether or not a summoning happens (...)

Well, my idea for this goes as follows:

Ally (Pikachu) [33] 25% of your starting points, +5; Appears Constantly (No roll required), x4; Summonable, +100%; Weaponized (summoning only), -25%, Requires material component (Pokéball), -10%.

This is a Pikachu, worth as many CP as its trainer; Pikachu will improve as its trainer does.

In order to summon Pikachu you need a Pokéball (material component) and you have to throw it with a will based skill called “Pokéball” (weaponized). If you succeed at using Pokéball, Pikachu may appear in the desired hex, taking into account the speed/range table. In order for Pikachu to show, you must win a contest of will (Pokéball vs. Pikachu’s will); the GM is free to skip this phase if Pikachu decides not resisting (or if Pikachu also has “minion”).

In order to retrieve Pikachu, you have to employ Pikachu’s Pokéball (because it’s weaponized); so using the Pokéball skill, the Pokéball shoots a laser beam that retrieves (unsummons) Pikachu. Pikachu may decide dodging the beam (or parrying the Pokéball, as in the animation) if it decides to remain in the “outside”. Also, you may fail “retrieving” Pikachu if you do not hit it with the laser beam. Unsummoning remains a free maneuver, but bringing-out (summoning) another Pokémon (switching Pokémons) works like a regular attack/concentrate maneuver.

The difference between “rolling the quick contest of will” and “rolling if your ally appears”, is that Pikachu may decide not showing (staying within the Pokéball, due to “weaponized”) although Pikachu is always with you (no roll required).

“Pokéball” is a will based innate attack, it is will instead of dexterity because “using” Pokémon is about the bonds and the faith between the trainer and its Pokémon, not about being good at throwing the balls.

Why did I pick weaponized? Because weaponized is a limitation that makes certain advantages visible, avoidable and resistible (better suited for stuff like afflictions, but seems to fit here). Weaponized is worth -25% instead of -50% because the limitation applies partially (roughly half of the time, “I choose you” or “I don’t choose you”).

Why not cancellation? “Cancellation” may sound/look like the appropriate take to end a summoning; however, cancelling a summoning is a free feature for a “summonable ally”. Also, “cancellation” is an enhancement, not a limitation; taking it would be like taxing the advantage with duplicated concepts. In other words, AFAIK “cancellation” was not designed as a limitation to make things harder, it is designed as an enhancement to make certain advantages work better. And in this situation, it would not follow said dynamic.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:38 AM   #20
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Default Re: modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

I just meant that building it in as a feature of summonable allies might be balanced out if it's a counterpart to also getting to target where your ally appears in the first place, if otherwise it's random which might not be so good.

The contest of will is interesting since usually beating up a pokemon (lowering HP) makes it easier to contain them, but IQ penalties from shock only last 1 second. It'd probably work better with longer-term shock penalties, maybe some kind of penalty to will rolls when HP is low, or against the master of whatever army has been pummeling you?
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