[Banestorm] Elves have never used money?!?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by DrTemp

So that would only leave the conclusion that Elven cities (and thus Elven ruins) were never as large as Yrth's human cities, and had only a few hundred inhabitants.

Potlatch-like systems are common in chiefdoms, and a small chiefdom is typically a thousand or more; big ones can have several thousand. And potlatch might work better for elves than it does for mortals, for various reasons.

[pnewman]

They do all have the 10 point Elven Code of Honor (except the few that bought it off). Presumably this helps them ensure reciprocity of barter. If they are supposed to lead elegant lives in harmony with nature than maybe money is inelegant. Moreover money, and capitalism, may lead to urbanization. It seems to me that urbanism may not be 'in harmony with nature' in the elven sense.

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by NorthSaber

An example of this in action can be found in Wendy & Richard Pini's Elfquest series, where the elves basically rule the world and have everything nicely set up, and currency is an unknown concept - everyone gets what they need, up to what the collective can produce.

Bwah? The elves hardly rule the world in the series. Their pre-spaceflight and spaceflight ancestors ruled their world, but nothing is mentioned about whether they had a phase with money in it before they went all Precursor on everything.

But yeah, the whole telepathy thing, plus the tendency for the elves in the series, seems to produce literal commune-ness. Healers heal, hunters hunt, etc. Too few of them not to do that!

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Even with present-day computational abilities, optimizing a system of production relationships in an economy with twenty million distinct products (the last estimate I saw for an industrial economy) and a billion consumers is challengingly hard. Computers that can operate on that scale in real time are fantasy as yet.
[...]

Hm. From what year is your source for this?

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Potlatch-like systems are common in chiefdoms, and a small chiefdom is typically a thousand or more; big ones can have several thousand. And potlatch might work better for elves than it does for mortals, for various reasons.

Okay. So what would be a credible size for a barter economy Elven city of pre-Banestorm times?

[Mark Caliber]

Originally Posted by DrTemp

Hm. From what year is your source for this?

You can cite me as a source, as of TODAY.


And besides, I'm not interested in arguing the merits (or the lack thereof) of socialism. Take that argument to the General Chatter forum (yew evil Thread Jackers!)

The question is (and should remain) how did the ELVES do it?

I do have some questions about Banestorm et al as I don't have it (and wont be getting it anytime.) but I digress. What TL do the Elves operate at? And what is the default TL of the Banestorm world?

If the answer to both is TL3 (give or take 1) then the possibility of the Elves not understanding/using money is actually very feasible. But I'll wait for the answer before I get into details.

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by Mark Caliber

You can cite me as a source, as of TODAY.

Aha. Now we've learned something... ;->

[NorthSaber]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Bwah? The elves hardly rule the world in the series. Their pre-spaceflight and spaceflight ancestors ruled their world, but nothing is mentioned about whether they had a phase with money in it before they went all Precursor on everything.

In the original series (up to the discovery of the palace, at least), humans are too primitive to be any kind of threat to the elves in general - Cutter's tribe and the fire are more of an exception to this, and certainly it cannot be said that the humans defeated them due to a higher level of civilization or better military tactics, or even due to larger numbers. Fire = bad.

The go-backs regularly kicked troll a$$, and the gliders - whom I consider to be the true, most advanced elven culture - were considered gods by the humans. I stick to what I said about the elves being the dominant culture (although perhaps the word ruled was poorly chosen).

Also, whether they had money in their past is irrelevant, as all of the elven tribes had forgotten everything about their high TL past and basically started again at TL 0 in the new world. At least the gliders had reached TL 3 or 4, in part thanks to their powers, and I don't recall any trade taking place in the series.

But yeah, the whole telepathy thing, plus the tendency for the elves in the series, seems to produce literal commune-ness. Healers heal, hunters hunt, etc. Too few of them not to do that!

The gliders also managed well, even though many of them seem to have no actual use in the community. This was in part thanks to the situation they had arranged with the humans, though.

[Ragabash Moon]

I've always said that in theory communism is the perfect form of government, but human nature causes it to fail every time. There will always be someone who wants more, and that breaks communism.

[Fabricati]

All very nice, Ragabash, but we're not discussing humans, we're discussing Elves, in whatever name, shape, or form they are.

Does the immensely extended lifespan of an Elf also relate a similar increase in memory capacity?