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Old 09-11-2017, 01:47 PM   #31
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
No, the normal guy definitely gets the bonus for his AoD:Dodge maneuver while running up. He then gets an unpenalised attack in the next round.
GURPS doesn't have rounds.

The speedster gets to move, trigger the Wait, dodge at a bonus, and then Attack before his opponent gets another turn. This is pretty obviously better than not having ATR.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
GURPS doesn't have rounds.

The speedster gets to move, trigger the Wait, dodge at a bonus, and then Attack before his opponent gets another turn. This is pretty obviously better than not having ATR.
I meant next turn.

Yes, it is obvioulsy better to be a speedster, but a speedster is not better at defending against such attacks. Speedsters are better in another regard which is that they can take more manuvers in combat. Someone with ATR who all out defends is not better at defending than a normal person who uses the same manuver.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
I meant next turn.

Yes, it is obvioulsy better to be a speedster, but a speedster is not better at defending against such attacks. Speedsters are better in another regard which is that they can take more manuvers in combat. Someone with ATR who all out defends is not better at defending than a normal person who uses the same manuver.
Being able to attack and still get AoD bonuses is pretty obviously better than not being able to attack. Being able to Power Dodge and add half Talent is also usually better than normal dodge.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:58 PM   #34
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Yes, it is a weird trait which represents somehow taking extra manuvers in combat without the side effects which should probably follow with such an ability.
One example of a non-speedster taking ATR I see thrown around a lot is a robot that can multitask perfectly well but doesn't actually move that quickly. The ATR is usually limited with "Can't take the same maneuver" or "Can't use the same physical parts" (which is simplified into things like "moving uses legs" and "attacking using only the attacking limb" even though both are probably full body movements).

As for waits, the only people who are going to do these waits are the same people who know that these waits would work against the speedsters. Plus, actual speedsters should take ETS, and might even use the Impulse Buys effect to have a turn outside of time. Both of those will severely outdo any mundane fighter. You're even guaranteed the first turn of combat that the enemy won't be Waiting (or might not even know combat is happening).
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:47 AM   #35
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

The way I run ATR is that time actually elapses differently for that character. One level lets you fall twice as far and fire a weapon twice the normal maximum ROF.

I also think the advantage should grant extra actions at higher initiative counts not lower (or the same). So basic speed 7.50 and one level of ATR should let you act once at initiative count 15 and again at 7.50. The advantage costs 100 points per level, it should be freakin awesome not merely good.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:03 AM   #36
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Great Haste costs one point.
Great Haste also requires three turns of concentration and a skill roll to use, only works for ten turns at a time, costs a bunch of fatigue and is vulnerable to counterspells and low/no mana zones. ATR is available reliably at will.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:17 AM   #37
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Great Haste costs one point.
That's generally not accurate.

Ignoring the Perk, Charm... Great Haste costs 57 points to get to, Haste prereq [1pt], Magery 1 prereq [15], IQ 12+ prereq [minimum 40], and the spell itself [1pt]. It also costs 5 magical FP and 5 endurance* FP (the first up front, the later as a backend cost if cast on another).

Now, I will grant you that in general most Characters will mitigate those point costs by wanting to be mages... but.. not all Fantasy Speedsters want to be mages. In which they either swallow 57 points to have Great Haste castable at skill level 9 (or spend even more points to get to a 'reasonable' skill level, [19] more to get to a 15 skill), or they take the Perk and have a really terrible casting skill (which is 'cheaper' to buy up than buying all the prereqs).

Great Haste Charm (Perk) would cost an IQ 10 non-mage Character 29 points to have at a 15 (Great Haste skill 15 [28], Charm Perk (Great Haste) [1]). If purchased to skill level 35 (which reduces the FP cost by 5) it would cost this Character another 40 points, for a total of 69 character points.

Sounds reasonable to me.




* I've always run it as 'endurance' FP, which may not be accurate.
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