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Old 07-18-2005, 09:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luther
I can't find this in Magic 2nd edition (p72). Was it in a previous version?
Possibly - I have first edition (again, from memory).
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
Possibly - I have first edition (again, from memory).
I can't find my first edition, 1st printing, but I do have first edition 2nd priting, and first edition 4th printing, none of them mention a fright check, and none of them can be resisted it's always been auto-stun.
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

GURPS Magic 1E1P (p. 63) "The subject must make a Fright Check at -5; Combat Reflexes does not help here!"

GURPS Magic 2E2P (p. 72) changes that sentence -- keeping everything else the same -- to "The subject is 'stunned' mentally until he can make his IQ roll to shake off the evil effects of the spell."

I missed that change when I was checking before. So the current version of Death Vision has been around since at least GURPS Magic 1E2P.
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Old 07-18-2005, 11:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jahn
GURPS Magic 1E1P (p. 63) "The subject must make a Fright Check at -5; Combat Reflexes does not help here!"
Well, I'm glad I'm not insane from remebering it that way.

Apprently, I've skipped from 1E1P to 4e1P -> thus the jarring difference.

I should probably pay more attention to the errata :)
Actually, checking shows nothing in the errata! I blame Kromm.
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Old 07-19-2005, 12:48 AM   #25
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
Well, I'm glad I'm not insane from remebering it that way.
What does going insane have to do with your memory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
Apparently, I've skipped from 1E1P to 4e1P -> thus the jarring difference.

I should probably pay more attention to the errata :)
Actually, checking shows nothing in the errata! I blame Kromm.
Errata would emply there was an error, but an update is not an erratum.
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Given that the spell description in Magic for 3e was changed (form 1E to 2E), should it be noted on the errata page?

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Magic/3e/

scroll down, I can't find any reference.
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luther
Given that the spell description in Magic for 3e was changed (form 1E to 2E), should it be noted on the errata page?
From 1E to 2E? No. In general there would be too many changes and you'd have to do an update book instead which is impractical for a sourcebook. Now if they changed things from 1P to 2P then it might be included in the errata for 1P. But that would suppose that 1P was wrong rather than "I changed my mind, it really should be like this" which is probably not errata-worthy.
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:32 AM   #28
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Sounds fair to me. After two turns of casting the mage should at least be able to stun his target.
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Old 07-19-2005, 12:44 PM   #29
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jahn
From 1E to 2E? No. In general there would be too many changes and you'd have to do an update book instead which is impractical for a sourcebook. Now if they changed things from 1P to 2P then it might be included in the errata for 1P. But that would suppose that 1P was wrong rather than "I changed my mind, it really should be like this" which is probably not errata-worthy.
I see, you are right, changes between editions are a different matter (as opposite to changes between printings). I overlooked this.
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Spell: Death Vision [Erratum?]

So, does Death Vision work the same in G3 and G4?

Well, I think the answer is no. The text is the same, but how it's gamed out is different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Vision, Magic 2e p72
The subject is “stunned” mentally until he can make his IQ roll to shake off the evil effects of the spell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Vision, Basic Set 4e p251
The subject is mentally stunned until he can make his IQ roll to shake off the effects of the spell.
In G3 p127 it says:
Quote:
If you are stunned, all your active defenses are at -4 until your next turn. At that time, roll against basic HT to see whether you recover. A successful roll means you can act normally on that turn.
Then explains that "mental stun" is the same as "physical stun", but you roll against IQ.
Quote:
The effects of this sort of stunning are just the same, but you must make your IQ roll, rather than your HT roll, to snap out of it. You're not hurt - you're confused.
So it seems pretty clear that the sequence goes like that:
  • Necro casts Death Vision on warrior and stuns him.
  • B,C,D... characters in the sequence act.
  • Warrior makes IQ roll, he can act on that turn.

But in G4 things are different, see page 420:
Quote:
If you are stunned, you must Do Nothing on your next turn. [...] At the end of your turn, you may roll against HT (NdLuther: against IQ for mental stun). On a success, you recover from stun and can act normally on subsequent turns.
And under the Do Nothing maneuver it makes clear that even if you make the roll, you are stunned (-4 defenses) until your next turn, p364:
Quote:
If you are stunned, however, your active defenses are at -4 until your next turn - even if you recover.
The above sequence now plays like:
  • Necro casts Death Vision on warrior and stuns him.
  • B,C,D... characters in the sequence act.
  • Warrior takes Do Nothing maneuver and makes IQ roll, he can act on subsequent turns.
  • X,Y,Z... characters in the sequence act.
  • Necro casts Death Vision on warrior and stuns him.
  • B,C,D... characters in the sequence act.
  • Warrior takes Do Nothing maneuver and makes IQ roll, he can act on subsequent turns.
  • ...

You got the picture. In G4 our warrior, even if he is a powerful hero, with lots of IQ, never get a chance to act, escape, fight the Necro, whatever . . . This is a change from G3. If I'm not wrong, it seems that the original poster's concerns are well founded: even if Death Vision's text is almost identical, the little changes in how GURPS handles stun have a heavy, nasty side effect.

I dunno if this is by design or if it was overlooked.
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