02-20-2021, 01:17 PM | #41 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Level System for GURPS
I have said it in other places that I pretty much just use the term "lvl1 or 0" to imply a starting character. Other than that I dont really use levels.
If your asking if *I* think its a good idea, I don't see the value of having levels in my GURPS games. If you want them because you think it would be fun for your players, have at it. I have to wonder that it might be easier to just run a different system if the desire to have "levels" is so strong you want to implement it. I mean GURPS is sort of the antithesis of the idea of character leveling. Yes, the person that assigned a "level" value to the CP is kind of creating the impression of leveling, but its really just a short hand way of saying the CP value of the character not actually a level. Last edited by bocephus; 02-20-2021 at 01:30 PM. Reason: clarifying text |
02-21-2021, 12:49 AM | #42 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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1) It's not actually true, at least in 3.X: the commoner probably has a club (1d6 damage; the cat has 1/2d8 (2) HP), and attacks first, as the cat (a Tiny creature) has to move through one the commoner's threatened squares to attack. That's not to say that the cat might not win, but see #2. 2) Most people vastly underestimate how dangerous their cat could be, if said cat was actually motivated, instead of annoyed. Consider how fast a cat can rake their back claws, then consider the exposed blood-veins underneath your fore-arm alone, and then consider your cat coming at you full speed with intent to kill. Internet memes aside, your cat has almost certainly never tried to kill you. Been annoyed enough to leave you with some scratches? Oh, certainly. But for an asocial solitary predator, that's just barely rude. Quote:
Sadly, people seem to think that 3.Xe wizard's later-level overpoweredness comes from damage. It's not; spell damage is underpowered compared to what other spells can do; and it starts very early. * There's no vagueness over how Sleep works. Once asleep, the affected creatures make Listen checks to wake up.
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In which I post about a TL9-10 solar system http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=169674 If you don't know why I said something, please ask. Assumptions are the death of courtesy. Disappointed in the behaviour I have too-often encountered here. |
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02-21-2021, 02:47 AM | #43 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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A well-adjusted cat may still not have a good appreciation of how easy it is to hurt human skin - it's harder to scratch up other cats. That said, currently living with 5 cats I'm pretty sure only one of them has ever scratched me in anger, and she's rather grumpy and almost certainly has some neurological issues. Quote:
That's a blatantly loaded scenario. A CR 3 adversary is not a recommended match for 4x level 1 PCs, an ogre is disproportionately weak in will and reflex saves, and it 'just happens' to be situated right at the upper limit of how many hit dice those spells can handle. Not a great demonstration there. (Side note: Daze doesn't work on an ogre. Ogres are giants, not humanoids, and Daze only works on humanoids. Of course, you never really want to cast daze in that fight anyway.)
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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02-21-2021, 03:58 AM | #44 | |||
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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Other people get cats from shelters; said cats might have difficulty fully trusting humans for very understandable reasons. Quote:
Yes. Well, there's a number of things here. 4 CR 1/2 Orcs (supposedly equal to 1 CR 3 Ogre) are also "disproportionately weak to Sleep", as are 6 CR 1/3 Goblins, 4 CR 1/2 Human, Dwarven, Halfling, Gnomish, or Half-Orc warriors, and basically anything at that level that isn't undead, a construct, an Elf, a Half-Elf, or a wizard, cleric, or other class that typically gets either a high Wisdom score, a bonus to Will saves, or both; aka spellcasters, monks, and paladins. Against such a selection of enemies, the sleep spell is overpowered; against other listed enemies, it is either useless or less useful. Against a powerful enemy, it simply fails to work. At which point, the wizard very likely has other spells. Hmm... So it turns out I was wrong about Daze. However, should you be fighting, perhaps, a CR 3 human Fighter who's had Enlarge Person cast on them, Daze has amazing utility, as it means they have about a 50% chance of just doing nothing every round. Overpowered in one area, and useless in another, does not mean "balanced" - it's still overpowered, you just need a bigger toolbox.
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In which I post about a TL9-10 solar system http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=169674 If you don't know why I said something, please ask. Assumptions are the death of courtesy. Disappointed in the behaviour I have too-often encountered here. |
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02-21-2021, 05:04 AM | #45 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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To be fair, the main inspiration, Middle Earth, was very magically poor compared to what would come out in the 1980s and early 1990s. Even Record of Lodoss War, which was based on a somewhat high powered AD&D setting came off as way underpowered when compared to things like Rune Explorers or Slayers. It is ironic that AD&D1 artifacts were so OP that they didn't appear in later editions as until mid level wizards were meh.
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Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number. |
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02-21-2021, 08:53 AM | #46 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Level System for GURPS
I know of the D&D cat versus commoner silliness, but I don't know the details. Can someone give me the specifics? I ask because reality checking it, it does seem pretty ridiculous.
I know a cat can really hurt a person if they're intent on killing... but if only due to the size difference, humans can really mess up a small animal like the common cat, at least if the human is similarly willing to kill.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
02-21-2021, 09:16 AM | #47 | |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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EDIT: It should perhaps be born in mind that, in early editions of DnD, a combat round was nominally a full minute of blows being exchanged. I can believe that an angry and determined cat could leave me bleeding on the floor if given a solid minute to claw me. In Third Edition, when a round lasted a mere six seconds, the affair began to take on its full level of ridiculousness ("Meow!" *Scratch* "Urk!").
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I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig. Last edited by ravenfish; 02-21-2021 at 09:31 AM. |
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02-21-2021, 10:16 AM | #48 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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The problem isn't the game system; it's the nonsense statistics for the housecat. That didn't stop hordes of detractors from accusing the game of being ridiculous, implicitly assuming that the stats for the housecat were perfectly good. |
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02-21-2021, 10:33 AM | #49 | |
On Notice
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number. |
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02-21-2021, 11:13 AM | #50 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Level System for GURPS
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I showed my cats the AD&D 3.5 stats for house cats. They refused comment. Silliness aside, "leveled" GURPS is a good idea for some types of campaigns and some play groups, but not others. The various "power ups" in the DF books are a good compromise which do a good job of emulating all the munchkiny feats introduced in later versions of AD&D. AD&D can be quite complex and has "crunchy bits" to rival GURPS (e.g., calculating experience points, figuring Encounter Ratings). It gets its reputation for simplicity because character design was so simple in D&D and AD&D 1ed. - roll 3d 6 times, arrange the numbers as you see fit, copy some numbers from the relevant tables, and then it's time to buy equipment. Most of the bookkeeping and math got offloaded onto the GM. |
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