Level System for GURPS

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Polkageist

Level implies class niches

Classes are generally what enforce niche protection in the games that have them.

DF adopts a strict rule about remaining on-template to achieve the same end.

But minor correction aside, I agree. If you want chunky advancement, you can just hand out XP in large groups. That doesn't make anything easier to me. You still have to track unspent xp and think about saving up for big purchases (because 25 points isn't really all that much compared to possible ability prices). Extra rules can provide guidance for new players, but the more rules constraining when and where and how you can buy traits is just that many more constraints you must simultaneously satisfy. That's more complicated, not less.

If simplicity is the goal, you want to reduce choices -- as sometimes with classes and templates.

(I say "sometimes", because digging into, say, D&D 3e shows that just having classes doesn't automatically make building characters simpler. Those classes don't really reduce choices, and they do introduce the need for a lot of pre-planning to hit the right prerequisite feats and classes so as not to break the character for later advancement. Noob traps galore, not to mention so many options the system leaves gaping holes for stacking exploits and Pun-Pun. Simplicity comes from low interaction and few choices. To me, that also reduces interest in character building, as many concepts won't be expressible in the system. But it is faster and easier.)

[edk926]

For DF style games, I can see having levels where you get additional Hit Points or Energy Points and chunks of spending points. Maybe also for games with heavy use of psi or other powers. Other types of games feel better with slow growth.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

If you want chunky advancement, you can just hand out XP in large groups.

Unrelated to the level system, I can see this being a good idea by itself. For instance, if you hand out points in (say) 25pt chunks and only then's when players can spend points, unspent points can stick around for Impulse Buys and players can think ahead with things like "I have 15pts now and will get 25, what 40pt stuff do I want then?"

[Infornific]

Action 4: Specialists could be one way to implement something like levels in GURPS - just earn 25 point chunks and trade them in for various specialist lenses.

Trying to standardize more than that just seems more trouble than it's worth.

[TGLS]

Is it just me or has everyone just up and forgotten Pointless Slaying and Looting and descendants?

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Is it just me or has everyone just up and forgotten Pointless Slaying and Looting and descendants?

I had no idea that existed. Neat.

[SimonAce]

The fact it isn't class and level is one of the best things about GURPS. I can't see why I'd want it in the game.

However if you need a shorthand, I usually assume 1 D&D level is about 50 points and L0 in old school is 25.

[AlexanderHowl]

I see no reason to have another 'zero to hero' leveled system, especially using GURPS. With level 0 being 250 CP, everyone begins as a hero, and they only get better with each additional level. At level 10, they end up being 500 CP. At level 20, they end up being 1,000 CP.

At 250 CP, most people can create a beginning hero that they are happy with. That is the point level of Action and DF. MH would be level 8 while the default Supers would be level 10. Levels could progress beyond 20, levels 21-30 would give +100 CP/level (up to 2,000 CP) while levels 31-40 would give +200 CP/level (up to 4,000 CP)

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

While GURPS is well known for not having levels, there is probably some utility for conceptualizing GURPS characters as having levels, so let us explore the idea in relation to cinematic/powered characters. Cinematic/powered characters would start with 250 CP at level 0 and would gain 25 CP/level for levels 1-10 and 50 CP/level for levels 11-20 (resulting in a level 20 character being worth 1,000 CP). Levels 1-10 would take five sessions per level while levels 11-20 would take ten sessions per level.

That is way too generous. Level 0 is supposed to be the "average" person - the town blacksmith, the local shopkeeper, and so on, basically GURPS Historical Folks. Even your average ruler is only 70 points and they are at the high end of the spectrum.

GURPS states the average person is supposed to be 25-50 points with Competent one being 50-75 points, 250 by comparison is supposed to be Larger-than-Life.

Perhaps it is too much of modern WoW (even D&D 5e isn't that generous with power at low levels) but beginning adventures shouldn't be Larger-than-Life. Conversely they shouldn't be so pathetic that they can die by ordinary housecat (AD&D1 and 2's 1st level Magic user)

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

At level 0, cinematic/powered characters would be limited to ST 20, DX 14, IQ 14, HT 14, the standard limits for secondary characteristics, and a maximum of (Attribute) for Wildcard Skills.

Ok, that is not a Level 0 character. Even with the roll 4d6 keep 3 system this is impossible.

D&D to GURPS goes at things from the opposite end - what's the least amount of skills at the lowest level (ie 1 point) to have this "class" function.

In fact, the high varience in D&D editions and the changes in WoW both show that levels doesn't really mean anything. A 5e 1st level Wizard will pound a 1-2e 1st level magic user into the ground and a 1st post-cataclysm level mage would fireball a 1st level Classic mage into a burnt offering.

Never mind all the level squishing WoW has had. I have no idea other then insanely more powerful how a current level 60 whatever compares to a Classic level 60.

I understand the appeal of a level system but when you look at most of them and look at the work to get GURPS to fit such a system I just don't think the result will be worth the effort.

[AlexanderHowl]

It is a matter of perspective (for example, in Anima, level 0 characters were quite capable). In my games, 250 CP is the lowest point value that I will run because I expect my players to step up, so that is level 0. A bunch of 50 CP characters would not survive the first session during my games, so they would be level -8.

In fact, I sometimes have players design 50 CP victims for a prelude session of my horror games, and they know that their prelude characters will die horribly during the first session. Their 250 CP character will have some sort of relationship with the 50 CP victim, giving a good reason to bring the group together. It also serves to give them a proper level of respect for the monsters, as they have already 'seen' the monsters in action.