New Reality Seeds

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

What do you mean by "modernity"?

The complex cultural changes that seem to almost always accompany modern technology and improvements in living standards.

[Astromancer]

Try this one...

Durring the prolonged fighting in China in the 1920's the Spanish Flu or something very close to it, breaks out. The war lord areas in the North surfer far worse. Japan also takes a nasty hit especially among young boys causing a serious population imbalance. Chiang Kai-shek uses the chaos to take full and complete control of China and start the nation on the road to economic recovery.

Japan is in shock and suffers a few more years of the flu before it subsides.

Asia is now quiet and peaceful, if uneasy.

It's now 1941 in this Q6 world. With Imperial Japan quiet and licking it's wounds [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor]Peral Harbor['url] is boringly safe. But how is FDR going to get the isolationist USA into the European War?

In our world, FDR was trying to create a naval incident in the Atlantic. In spite of the Conspiracy theories FDR was terrified that a war with Japan would mean being forced to totally abandon Europe. Both Homeline and the Cabal (for very different reasons) want to get Hitler to declare war on America. Meanwhile, Swagmen, preferring a messier and more violent world, with easier pickings, want to kill FDR and/or Churchill. They figure this won't win Hitler the war, but it will make everything messier and their criminal activities ignorable.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

It's now 1941 in this Q6 world. With Imperial Japan quiet and licking it's wounds [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor]Peral Harbor['url] is boringly safe. But how is FDR going to get the isolationist USA into the European War?

In our world, FDR was trying to create a naval incident in the Atlantic. In spite of the Conspiracy theories FDR was terrified that a war with Japan would mean being forced to totally abandon Europe. Both Homeline and the Cabal (for very different reasons) want to get Hitler to declare war on America. Meanwhile, Swagmen, preferring a messier and more violent world, with easier pickings, want to kill FDR and/or Churchill. They figure this won't win Hitler the war, but it will make everything messier and their criminal activities ignorable.

While Homeline would certainly try to protect FDR and Churchill if they knew that an assassination attempt was in the offing, if the Swagmen succeed in killing FDR, or fail in a way that makes the attempt public, I could easily see Homeline and/or the Cabal making it look like the attempt was perpetrated or paid for by German agents. That might not get the US into the war by itself (though it could if spun correctly), it should increase hostility toward the Axis Powers. This would make reactions (on both sides) to other incidents more severe (and both Homeline and the Cabal have the means and motive to create such incidents, once the opportunities arise).

[Phil Masters]

Swagmen are usually presented as swashbuckling rogues rather than casual assassins. Now, like any disorganised group of career criminals, they're actually going to include a significant proportion of total scumbags, but I could see a lot of the less vicious members of the group thinking that offing FDR or WSC was a really bad idea, to the point of being prepared to turn in the ones responsible.

They probably rather like the free outlaw image, and reckon that Infinity tends to class them as a lower priority issue so long as all they're doing is pulling the odd flashy heist while Reich-5 and Centrum are going round being Nazis and sinister control freaks. And if they do get caught and come to trial, well, non-violent offences, your honour. Bumping off someone who's practically a culture hero, for the sake of making WWII worse, is a great way to get reclassified as actively evil.

Which said, if a swagman group does start conducting assassinations to promote chaos from which they can somehow profit, there's a long, long list of potential targets on multiple timelines. Politicians who promote law and order or avoid war aren't that uncommon.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Swagmen are usually presented as swashbuckling rogues rather than casual assassins.

They are stereotypally jolly, and steal sheep.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

They are stereotypally jolly, and steal sheep.

Ask them for mutton recipes, please.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Swagmen are usually presented as swashbuckling rogues rather than casual assassins. Now, like any disorganised group of career criminals, they're actually going to include a significant proportion of total scumbags, but I could see a lot of the less vicious members of the group thinking that offing FDR or WSC was a really bad idea, to the point of being prepared to turn in the ones responsible.

They probably rather like the free outlaw image, and reckon that Infinity tends to class them as a lower priority issue so long as all they're doing is pulling the odd flashy heist while Reich-5 and Centrum are going round being Nazis and sinister control freaks. And if they do get caught and come to trial, well, non-violent offences, your honour. Bumping off someone who's practically a culture hero, for the sake of making WWII worse, is a great way to get reclassified as actively evil.

Which said, if a swagman group does start conducting assassinations to promote chaos from which they can somehow profit, there's a long, long list of potential targets on multiple timelines. Politicians who promote law and order or avoid war aren't that uncommon.

Having Swagmen break up and turn in other Swagmen sounds both likely and chaotic. Good call Phil. Maybe it should be an anti-Hitler German who does the turning in.

And yes, Swagmen striring up chaos for profit are great wildcard threats. How do you predict childish selfishness?

[Luke Bunyip]

Yes, but just remember, you'll never take them alive!

[PTTG]

More Swagman troubles:

• Bribing the early collage of cardinals to select the most libertine popes.
• Bringing a huge haul of gold bars from a hell world over to some early 20th century and warping the global economy.
• Swapping a desperately poor Rockefeller and his double in a normal echo.
• Using magic artifacts on a trace-magic worldline to torment slaveowners.

[Astromancer]

I was watching Timeghost or rather their World War Two Week by Week documentary series and they made the point that Anglo-French actions in the winter of 1940 nearly led to a Nazi/Soviet alliance to make war against the Western Allies. How likely this is I can't say but what a nightmare scenario.

Assume that Stalin believes Hitler will someday betray him (he believed that of Churchill and FDR) so he'll prepare to stab Hitler first (whether those preparations are any better than the ones he made in our world is up to you).

Just starting out with the war raging across the Nordic lands in the late spring of 1940 (and Spring was late that year) is drama. Both Homeline and Centrum would want the Nazi/Soviet alliance to lose, especially if any superscience or paranormal powers show up.

The Cabal will probably focus on California in the parallel. After 1930 Los Angeles is the occult capital of the Earth (this is true in our history). With Homeline and Centrum focused on Europe. the Cabal could have free reign.