New Reality Seeds

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

There would be some unpleasant consequences of removing major wars and dictators from history though. With no Hitler, antisemitism would be FAR more prevalent, for example.

Agreed, but the parallel would still seem to merit the name "Lucky."

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold

I'm calling BS on this continent not being inhabited by humans before European explorers came along. (You didn't say it was uninhabited, but you didn't mention natives, and judging by our record elsewhere I doubt humans would get there without causing a mass extinction by bringing rats, livestock, etc.)An Australia-sized continent, let alone one larger and wider, would just about stretch from Japan and Kamchatka to Alaska, if not coming within easy sailing distance of Hawaii or California. (Image courtesy of thetruesize.com. Map seems to be a Mercator projection; beware the Mercator.)

There are ten thousand miles of Ocean between Hawaii and Japan. The Pacific is the largest geographical feature of the planet. Yes, an Australia sized continent could hide there until late in Earth's history. I grant you it would likely be inhabited by people originally from Hawaii. But I didn't want another genocide of native peoples so I simply have luck keep the Hawaiians away.

This, so much. You can't fix major social or economic issues by finding and locating the BBEG, murdering him, and watching credits roll.
Focusing on Hitler: Even with no Hitler, the German people are still going to be drowning in war reparations and the economic problems caused by them. They are still going to feel angry at having lost the war, and will want to blame someone for their ills. Heck, killing Hitler won't even stop them from blaming the Jews and Commies; the stab-in-the-back myth was already brewing when the Armistace was signed, and antisemitism among the was clearly demonstrated in the German army during the War. (And probably elsewhere, but it's Germany we're focused on.)
To prevent the Holocaust, or any other 20th-century horrors, you need to stop the Great War. Hm...looks like some of the root causes have to do with some emperor not respecting Serbian nationalism or something...just gotta kill some of the imperial family and—wait a second, something about this doesn't feel right.

I'll agree to your argument. WWI set up all the following calamities. Still, the mysterious deaths of the dictators is the issue. Finding out what happened. A world-jumper like Elleander Morning may be behind it all. Or a deadly Cabal plot to create a superdictator. It's just a cool alternate world.

[AlexanderHowl]

In Camelot-7, Queen Morgana used her mastery of magic to unify the Celtic tribes of Britain and Ireland together under her authority in 393 AD, ten years after the Romans abandoned Britannia. During her conquest, she drove the Christian Church from Britain and Ireland, repulsed invasions by the Saxons, and proved herself to be superior to any man. Ten years later, she rules a prosperous kingdom, where female practitioners of magic thrive, and where the statues of invaders turned to stone by their magic serve as a warning to anyone who would seek to test Queen Morgana's power. With ten healthy daughters, five born during the conquest and five born during the peace, Queen Morgana has assured the future of her kingdom.

Camelot-7 is a Q4 world without mana where the inhabitants use Path/Book Ritual Magic to alter reality. Outside of Morgana's Kingdom, practitioners of magic are persecuted and hunted. Within Morgana's Kingdom, they are celebrated.

Infinity is concerned about the magic of the timeline, as it is capable of working on timelines without magic, and the fact that they have encountered individuals from Morgana's kingdom trading with other Q4 timelines has not made Infinity happy. While Morgana's kingdom is not threat to Infinity, it is concerned about the potential spread of the Secret throughout other Q4 timelines. So far though, the magical practitioners of Morgana's kingdom seem as paranoid as Infinity about keeping the Secret, though for different reasons, as they seel to avoid the persecution that such a revelation would bring.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Agreed, but the parallel would still seem to merit the name "Lucky."

I think that entirely depends on whether the discoverers felt the timeline was definitively better than Homeline's history.

Lucky would be more like Hitler getting accepted to art school and not going into politics with similar unlikely events altering potential dictators' lives to non-political pursuits.

This just sounds like assassinations by outtimers or internal conspirators. Personally, I'd be really nervous of global conspiracies. They tend to pop up where you least expect them after all. (In parallels that is.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

There are ten thousand miles of Ocean between Hawaii and Japan. The Pacific is the largest geographical feature of the planet. Yes, an Australia sized continent could hide there until late in Earth's history. I grant you it would likely be inhabited by people originally from Hawaii. But I didn't want another genocide of native peoples so I simply have luck keep the Hawaiians away.

1. Check your numbers. A quick Google search indicates that it's just over 6600 km, or just over 4,000 miles—less than half the distance you claimed. I'll be polite and assume that you misremembered the distance as being nearly half of Earth's circumference at the equator.
2. Australia is about 4,000 km (2500 miles) across; you described New Hanover as even wider. At best, we're looking at maybe 1300 kilometers on each side.
3. There are other islands between Japan and Hawaii, which were extensively settled by Polynesian peoples. Which brings me to...
4. It was not mere "luck" that determined where the Polynesians settled; they had by far the most advanced maritime culture in the world until around the early colonial period. Small islands far from
5. Even if we keep it away from the Polynesians, there are plenty of other peoples with boats who could have stumbled on it. You can't hide a friggin' continent from all of humanity for ten thousand years!
(5b. Wait a second, unless New Hanover just emerged in maybe the past few million years, it should have the ecology of a continent, not an oceanic island. The continents have a habit of linking up and splitting with one another. If nothing else, depending on how New Hanover screwed up the local seafloor, there's a decent chance it could be land-accessible to alongside the Bering Strait crossing...which is another way for humans to show up.)
6. The biggest problems boil down to you making New Hanover way, way too big. An island in the Pacific, I'll buy. A whole continent, no.
7. I don't particularly care if you think "another genocide of native peoples" is plausible, especially when I pointed out a way this scenario could have no genocide of native peoples.
7b. Especially when you don't really do much with the setting other than say "New Hanover is a land of ADVEEENTURE~, and there's two competing groups trying to expand into the land, so they need adventurers". I expect better from you, of all people. Normally, I respect your new reality seeds; even if I disagree with the historical plausibility, they're usually interesting. This one...isn't.

I'll agree to your argument. WWI set up all the following calamities. Still, the mysterious deaths of the dictators is the issue. Finding out what happened...It's just a cool alternate world.

Eh. It could be a neat plot, but it's not dependent on being an alternate world. Not to mention that it barely qualifies as such, since the consequences of the dictators being assassinated aren't considered even briefly. With that justification, it would work well in an "I-Cops Plot Hook" thread, but it seems...out of place here.

[AlexanderHowl]

Even another New Zealand would be a major deal, especially if it was uninhabited by indigenous populations, as the Europeans would have fought wars over such a prize.

[(E)]

Possible map reference for the New Zealand continent
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia

A possible reason why early colonization didn't take, especially if the local fauna have been upsized.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haast's_eagle

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold

1. Check your numbers. A quick Google search indicates that it's just over 6600 km, or just over 4,000 miles—less than half the distance you claimed. I'll be polite and assume that you misremembered the distance as being nearly half of Earth's circumference at the equator.
2. Australia is about 4,000 km (2500 miles) across; you described New Hanover as even wider. At best, we're looking at maybe 1300 kilometers on each side.
3. There are other islands between Japan and Hawaii, which were extensively settled by Polynesian peoples. Which brings me to...
4. It was not mere "luck" that determined where the Polynesians settled; they had by far the most advanced maritime culture in the world until around the early colonial period. Small islands far from
5. Even if we keep it away from the Polynesians, there are plenty of other peoples with boats who could have stumbled on it. You can't hide a friggin' continent from all of humanity for ten thousand years!
(5b. Wait a second, unless New Hanover just emerged in maybe the past few million years, it should have the ecology of a continent, not an oceanic island. The continents have a habit of linking up and splitting with one another. If nothing else, depending on how New Hanover screwed up the local seafloor, there's a decent chance it could be land-accessible to alongside the Bering Strait crossing...which is another way for humans to show up.)
6. The biggest problems boil down to you making New Hanover way, way too big. An island in the Pacific, I'll buy. A whole continent, no.
7. I don't particularly care if you think "another genocide of native peoples" is plausible, especially when I pointed out a way this scenario could have no genocide of native peoples.
7b. Especially when you don't really do much with the setting other than say "New Hanover is a land of ADVEEENTURE~, and there's two competing groups trying to expand into the land, so they need adventurers". I expect better from you, of all people. Normally, I respect your new reality seeds; even if I disagree with the historical plausibility, they're usually interesting. This one...isn't.

If you don't like it make a better setting. spending vast amounts of time attacking me seems like a waste. If others like or loathe MU-2 that's their call, not yours or mine.

Eh. It could be a neat plot, but it's not dependent on being an alternate world. Not to mention that it barely qualifies as such, since the consequences of the dictators being assassinated aren't considered even briefly. With that justification, it would work well in an "I-Cops Plot Hook" thread, but it seems...out of place here.

Make your own cool parallels.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Even another New Zealand would be a major deal, especially if it was uninhabited by indigenous populations, as the Europeans would have fought wars over such a prize.

Agreed, and in the 19th century, they'd be both ready to fight and able to project power across the globe to do it.

[AlexanderHowl]

The best placement for it would actually be a few thousand miles south of Hawaii, on 150 W, as there is an area the size of Australia near the Southern Ocean where there is literally nothing but water. It could have the same climate as New Zealand and could have been completely missed until the 18th century.