09-20-2017, 07:05 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
Hello Folks,
Quickie question time... Binary Propellants in Ultratech tell us to modify the caseless rounds stats for guns per the written rules. My question is: How does it modify the stats of TL 8 guns using standard cased ammunition? Hal |
09-20-2017, 07:26 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
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As I know of no truly good candidates for the two chemicals to used as binary components it's hard to give you a realism-based guesstimate of propellant mass.
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Fred Brackin |
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09-20-2017, 08:46 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
Liquid propellant is incompatible with cased ammunition. There are four parts to ammunition: projectile, case, propellant, and primer. A liquid propellant firearm measures out propellant from a tank instead of parcelling it with each round (eliminating the need for a case) and ignites the propellant (eliminating the need for a primer).
The ballistics of any TL8 round can be duplicated using liquid propellant. |
09-20-2017, 08:49 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
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Though it mostly doesn't matter. Propellant is generally less significant than either bullet or case when considering ammunition weight. |
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09-20-2017, 10:03 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
Would it be possible to guestimate what the energy in joules per gram of the binary propellant might be by chance?
The problem here is that we can get real life data on real life bullets, and get the damage values from there. But if the Binary Propellant rules were intended to work with caseless rounds, then we're kinda SOL (Stuck onna limb for the G rated version). GURPS VEHICLES made the assumption that the damage of the bullets would increase with TL because of the propellants used. If I can get a ballpark estimate of what the propellant is relative to modern smokeless powder, that would be nice. |
09-21-2017, 07:36 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
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Luke |
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09-21-2017, 08:35 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
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Depending on the gun, the statement made was that the magazine would hold enough propellant to fire off three magazines. For the heavy pistol, that would be 60 shots (possibly 63) and a medium pistol would hold 90 shots (possibly 93). For an assault carbine - that would be 150 shots! For a Gatling Carbine? That would be 600 shots! That's a heck of a fair amount of explosive propellant available for a secondary explosion for a freshly loaded gun. :( Real world data exists for muzzle velocity, smokeless powder mass, and bullet mass, which permits us to determine what the energy content of the smokeless powder has to be in the neighborhood of. What we don't have is the bullet mass of the actual caseless bullets themselves, the propellant mass for the caseless bullets, nor the actual velocity of the bullets. In other threads, there have been questions on whether or not the Caseless data is essentially pulling numbers out of thin air or not. The possible exception to this may be the G-11, but the formula from Doug Cole's spreadsheet seems to fail when talking about caseless Ammo for some odd reason. :( |
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09-21-2017, 09:04 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
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You have the data for the bullets that would be used with liquid propellant. They're the same bullets used in cased ammo at equivalent velocities. Liquid propellant would just do away with the gunpowder and the cartridge that holds it. If you think lwcamp's suggestions for propellant are much too dangerous for practical use that probably means the idea isn't practical.
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Fred Brackin |
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09-21-2017, 10:37 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
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Or you can look up the properties of nitrocellulose. Plausible TL 8 solid propellants have an energy density of 4-5 kJ/g, though guns typically only have an efficiency of 20-30%. Likely (non-cryogenic) binary propellants are similar, the theoretical benefits of liquid propellants aren't based on energy density. |
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09-21-2017, 12:38 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Re: Binary propellant and Standard TL 8 guns?
I find myself wondering if this idea was modeled after bombardier beetles.
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