Dungeon Fantasy, Action, Monster Hunters . . . now post-apocalyptic?

[PK]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Start low-power, scale up. Start out working on the assumption that people are lower power levels/scavengers/townsfolk/tribals, then move up to the point where people can play super-mutants/robots/whatever in a later supplement.

While DF definitely didn't start "low-power," it did take this approach to some degree -- build regular, single-class humans with DF1, and then add DF3 if you want to multi-class or add racial templates. At the time, there were actually a lot of complaints ("Why would you wait until a later supplement to add something as fundamental as races??"), but in retrospect, it seems to have been a good decision.

It would likely make sense for a post-apoc treatment. Especially with races -- not all post-apoc games will mesh well with anthropomorphic-animal and rogue-robot PCs. Even something as freewheeling as Fallout still only lets the PC be a human, for example.

And don't completely eliminate the survival/scavenging aspects in pursuit of ease of play/cinematic convention. Just streamline and summarize.

Scavenging and survival are both so key to the genre that I don't think you could ever eliminate them completely. Though if the characters become well enough off, with all the gear they'll ever need, they may just stop scavenging; and if they can afford to trade for enough rations and clean water, it takes the bite out of survival as well. But I think that's more in the GM's hands to prevent the PCs from getting to that point, unless that's the kind of game he wants.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

It would likely make sense for a post-apoc treatment. Especially with races -- not all post-apoc games will mesh well with anthropomorphic-animal and rogue-robot PCs. Even something as freewheeling as Fallout still only lets the PC be a human, for example.

True, the computer games required the PC to be human, but a Fallout RPG would need Human, Ghoul, and Super Mutant races (EDIT: and multiple lenses for the Super Mutants) at the least, and maybe Talking Deathclaw, Cyberdogs, and certain Robot races, depending on which of the 'follower' characters you create PC races for.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

While DF definitely didn't start "low-power," it did take this approach to some degree -- build regular, single-class humans with DF1, and then add DF3 if you want to multi-class or add racial templates. At the time, there were actually a lot of complaints ("Why would you wait until a later supplement to add something as fundamental as races??"), but in retrospect, it seems to have been a good decision.

Sure seems to have been. Some of it might be because the theme hit a button, but I kinda doubt that a "logical" progression [e.g., first book having characters start off with a more standard 150 points] would have done better.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

While DF definitely didn't start "low-power," it did take this approach to some degree -- build regular, single-class humans with DF1, and then add DF3 if you want to multi-class or add racial templates. At the time, there were actually a lot of complaints ("Why would you wait until a later supplement to add something as fundamental as races??"), but in retrospect, it seems to have been a good decision.

It would likely make sense for a post-apoc treatment. Especially with races -- not all post-apoc games will mesh well with anthropomorphic-animal and rogue-robot PCs. Even something as freewheeling as Fallout still only lets the PC be a human, for example.

Well, ideally I would want all the "making a character" stuff of any power level to be in one book, but I think that's incompatible with the e23 PDF treatment due to length constraints. Better to start low and scale up, though, if you have to start at one end of the spectrum.

And you could also include racial templates with NPC blocks in whichever relatively early supplement covered threats the PCs can face. As well as power-ups to the existing occupational templates for people who want to stay a human. Basically the DF3 approach, but include a NPC stat block for typical opposition the PCs might encounter for each race. Shouldn't inflate page count TOO much, and should be pretty straightforward if the templates are already done.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Scavenging and survival are both so key to the genre that I don't think you could ever eliminate them completely. Though if the characters become well enough off, with all the gear they'll ever need, they may just stop scavenging; and if they can afford to trade for enough rations and clean water, it takes the bite out of survival as well. But I think that's more in the GM's hands to prevent the PCs from getting to that point, unless that's the kind of game he wants.

Your comment about "not sacrificing fun for detail" earlier made me wary. No one who actually plays these games decides "Instead of fun, I think I'll take an extra helping of detail please!" Instead, each person has a different level of detail that is fun for them.

I think if you were going to do this, something like Fallout New Vegas does with the Hardcore mode would be a good idea. Set the default somewhere in the middle of how much attention is paid to surviving, scavenging, etc, and then include a couple optional switches to make it a larger portion of the game or completely abstract and subsumed into a couple background rolls once a session or something.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

I see two genres that would be well suited for the DF/A!*/MH treatment: Cyberpunk (Shadowrun-esque) and Western (Deadlands-esque).

• Cyberpunk (Shadowrun-esque): You've got clearly defined character types (Decker, gun bunny, etc etc), and you've got clearly defined adventure types (break into a high security place and steal some stuff, papers, etc. basically a dungeon delve in the future./The resident evil scenario: Go into the lab after the accident and exterminate the infected/Follow someone, and ambush them to get their IDs, secret keys/etc)

Isn't that Action in a slightly different setting?

I guess you might want a supplement for cyborgization.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Isn't that Action in a slightly different setting?

I guess you might want a supplement for cyborgization.

It could be a set of lenses on Action, but there are a number of changes to the templates IMHO that are beyond simply changing the setting and adding cyber implants. You would also have to add some modifications to Action 2.

In the end, I feel that it would be easier to make it a new series, but you could have it as an addon to the current series.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Isn't that Action in a slightly different setting?

I guess you might want a supplement for cyborgization.

Agreed, basically Action already covers the typical game style of SR-Missions... A cyberpunk add-on for cybernetic and bionic implants would be really nice, though! Ideally also dealing with the game-effects of high-speed movement with wired reflexes and things like that. I'd definitely buy it...

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Isn't that Action in a slightly different setting?

I'd say so... It looks like a one-off, maybe as an addition to the Action series.

[Refplace]

I would buy a Cyberpunk Action supplement and it would likely prompt me to get the remaining volumes in the series.
What I would like in it are
Sample writeups of gear and cyber wear.
The hacking rules from the Pyramid article.
Expanded computer rules, possibly from the latest pyramid article though I have not bought it yet.
Software.
The character Lens and new templates already suggested.
Focus on the Rigger and Driver, including a remote pilot template or lens.
Some good rules and ideas for handling spotlight PCs and those not in the spotlight such as when hacking. I think this may already be covered well enough though.