Create a setting -- diesel punk awesomeness!

[tshiggins]

Yeah, I think air-to-air flamethrowers would be a bit... much. The range is too close, really. Still, given how long the Byzantines retained knowledge of, and continued to use, Greek Fire, I'd think they'd keep incendiaries of some sort in their arsenal -- napalm and white phosphorus for ground attack, and flame-throwers and incendiary shells for ground combat.

I'd definitely think their descendant nations would want incendiary rounds in their aircraft MGs and cannons, too, while other areas might prefer AP (India?) or even explosive (China?) rounds.

I do like the notion of Chinese nations who have the best rocket tech, but I'm not sure we'd want anything more advanced than radio-guided missiles steered from the aircraft by the pilot or a gunner. Even those may be too much. Maybe stick to dumb rockets?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqGYSOMwBuA

(Not the plane, but the ATGMs. Language warning -- Devil Dog Gamer's vocabulary very much reflects his background as a U.S. Marine.)

Those might work as air-to-air weapons of last resort if mounted on a dirigible -- especially if it could handle sheaves of them. The crews launch them, guide them toward attacking aircraft, and detonate them in close proximity.

(I am pleased to see that this thread still exists, after my week in St. Thomas. It appeared to want to peter out, there, just before I left. I do note that participation doesn't seem nearly so broad as the steampunk thread, though, and I'm not sure why that's so. Do people who enjoy the technology of this time-period indulge their fascination with Weird WWII, maybe? Or does the horrific nature of combat in WWI and WWII make it difficult to see it as a romantic period of high adventure?)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

I do like the notion of Chinese nations who have the best rocket tech, but I'm not sure we'd want anything more advanced than radio-guided missiles steered from the aircraft by the pilot or a gunner. Even those may be too much. Maybe stick to dumb rockets?

Radio-guided air-to-surface missiles are a prototype thing in WWII and regularly deployed in the WWII+10 period but would be affected by lagging radio/radar tech.

I am unaware of any guided air-to-air missiles in wWII+10 though some come close. Also probably affected by lagging electronics.

However, there were some rather mechano-rococco experiments in unguided rockets for aerial interception. The Germans started trying such things late in WWII against bombers and the USAF experimented enthusiastically with it in the early days of SAC. The rather modest "hydra" ground attack pod in HT is a spin-off of those times.

There's a little flavor of this in this link to the F-89.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-89_Scorpion

....with its' 104 rockets in wing pods. I've seen film of them releasing _all_ of those in a salvo during training. The idea was to "shotgun" the airspace around an incoming bomber and hope that one hit. You only needed one.

This sort of idea would not rely on a jet-powered launching plane when aiming for a non-jet bomber.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Radio-guided air-to-surface missiles are a prototype thing in WWII and regularly deployed in the WWII+10 period but would be affected by lagging radio/radar tech.

I am unaware of any guided air-to-air missiles in wWII+10 though some come close. Also probably affected by lagging electronics.

However, there were some rather mechano-rococco experiments in unguided rockets for aerial interception. The Germans started trying such things late in WWII against bombers and the USAF experimented enthusiastically with it in the early days of SAC. The rather modest "hydra" ground attack pod in HT is a spin-off of those times.

There's a little flavor of this in this link to the F-89.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-89_Scorpion

....with its' 104 rockets in wing pods. I've seen film of them releasing _all_ of those in a salvo during training. The idea was to "shotgun" the airspace around an incoming bomber and hope that one hit. You only needed one.

This sort of idea would not rely on a jet-powered launching plane when aiming for a non-jet bomber.

I do like that notion, then. No radio-guided missiles, but instead stick to dumb rockets with a set range to detonation, and the Chinese nations do that better than anybody. :)

How scary would those be to fire from a hydrogen-filled airship? Would that be workable? Maybe with localized shielding from the rocket propellant?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

I do like that notion, then. No radio-guided missiles, but instead stick to dumb rockets with a set range to detonation, and the Chinese nations do that better than anybody. :)

How scary would those be to fire from a hydrogen-filled airship? Would that be workable? Maybe with localized shielding from the rocket propellant?

There is backblast and shielding would be necessary.

[(E)]

Rockets may feature more submunitions to improve air to air effectiveness. Dumb rockets (all things being equal) have the speed advantage over smarter rockets as their is more space for propulsion.

Up until the late 90's some militaries used dumb weapons for anti ship use for this reason. Fired from the horizon.

Incidentally a question.
Where did the bulk of the battles in the great war take place? In OTL the terrain was characterized by the mud of France. In this time line are the shale slopes of Nepal more symbolic of the conflict? This may have an influence on the technology that was developed at the time.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by (E)

Rockets may feature more submunitions to improve air to air effectiveness. Dumb rockets (all things being equal) have the speed advantage over smarter rockets as their is more space for propulsion.

Up until the late 90's some militaries used dumb weapons for anti ship use for this reason. Fired from the horizon.

Incidentally a question.
Where did the bulk of the battles in the great war take place? In OTL the terrain was characterized by the mud of France. In this time line are the shale slopes of Nepal more symbolic of the conflict? This may have an influence on the technology that was developed at the time.

That's actually a really good question, and I see three different theaters, and the fight differed substantially in each -- the Iranian Plateau, the Himalayas, and the jungles of Southeast Asia.

On the arid and semi-arid, intermittently mountainous Iranian plate, I'd think the tactics would focus on speed and combined arms. In the Himalayas, I think position would be key, and you'd need really good air power to dislodge enemies from superior positions. In the jungles, I think infantry and brown-water navies would be hugely important, with aircraft in a ground-support role.

Of course, the fourth theater would be the sea.

[(E)]

Depending on the local equivalent of the Geneva convention another weapon that might fit the asthetic of the heavily garbed byzantine soldier equiped with a flamethrower is a Gas projector of some sort. The soldier.is now clad head to foot in gas resistant clothing and wears a complicated gas mask. The weapon now shoots semi liquid toxic gas.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by (E)

Depending on the local equivalent of the Geneva convention another weapon that might fit the asthetic of the heavily garbed byzantine soldier equiped with a flamethrower is a Gas projector of some sort. The soldier.is now clad head to foot in gas resistant clothing and wears a complicated gas mask. The weapon now shoots semi liquid toxic gas.

This is in Gurps Steam-tech as "Viridian". A nightmare to handle and not quite in the wheelhouse of any of the major powers.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This is in Gurps Steam-tech as "Viridian". A nightmare to handle and not quite in the wheelhouse of any of the major powers.

I could see some local use during the war (after all, the Great War has some WWI parallels), but I also would think the great powers would find it more trouble than it's worth -- especially given that the fight probably didn't take place in static entrenchments.

That said, it's a great terror weapon if used by a post-war warlord who has even fewer ethical scruples than usual.