Shy Shortsword over Broadsword?

[GodBeastX]

Trying to find the benefit of using a Shortsword over a Broadsword, considering most the weapons are similar reach but end up with less damage.

[GodBeastX]

Only things I can think of is:

#1. Cheaper overall
#2. Better roll for hold-out
#3. More acceptable on a person?

[Phantasm]

Shortswords are also handy as a sidearm in urban environments, particularly when broadswords and their ilk are restricted to certain classes. You may be legally unable to own a broadsword, not being of a noble or knightly/warrior class, but a shortsword (particularly prior to the development of the rapier) is more often a civilian weapon.

Also, there are time periods - Heroic Greek, for instance - when shortswords are common but broadswords are pretty much non-existent or only made of orichalcum.

[johndallman]

Also lighter to carry, which matters if a sword is backup to a primary ranged weapon. Mind you, the Long Knife seems to be the sweet spot for that role.

[Polydamas]

This has been a popular topic, although note that there are new stats for shortswords in Low Tech.

Quite a lot of people who carried shortswords didn't expect to use them to fight another person, so reduced weight, bulk, and cost were important.

[Varyon]

The shortsword being lighter is good for personal carry, and I think MA has some rules that allow lighter weapons to rapid strike and/or pull off multiple parries in a round more easily. Additionally, a longer sword should probably only see a boost to its swing damage, not thrust (I think GURPS already does this, but I'm away from books), when wielded one-handed - and swings aren't exactly conducive to tight formation fighting! There are also urban (or underground) environments that you aren't exactly free to swing a blade around in. I think Underground Adventures has guidelines for all this, but I don't have that particular book. It's also easier to control the tip of a shorter sword, giving your thrusts better accuracy, but this is probably below GURPS resolution. Cost is, of course, also a concern, particularly if weapons are made of something expensive, like bronze. Shortsword also has rather kind defaults to both Broadsword and Knife, so training in it can give you excellent skill for urban/formation confrontations (Shortsword) with defaults to fairly decent skill if left with only a backup weapon (Knife) or if you need to pick up something a little heavier for some chopping (Broadsword).

[Jetman123]

This is one of my biggest problems with Low-Tech and Martial Arts' weapon tables. I'm not sure why it was done this way - an oversight, perhaps.

The Long Knife and Shortsword, in physical dimensions, overlap greatly - there is only a single inch of difference in which one can be sure one is dealing with a Shortsword and not with a Long Knife. Yet the Long Knife has reach C, 1, making it useful in close combat, but the Shortsword - a weapon that was prized for its utility in close combat, cannot strike or thrust at reach C, thus meaning it's useless for close combat. Martial Arts says, and I quote, "[The Shortsword]... is useful in tight corners." But it isn't! There is no reason you would ever desire one in terms of pure effectiveness - the Thrusting Broadsword is better in every way, and is equally as effective in close combat.

Personally, I don't think the Long Knife should exist. It seems like a patch for the shortsword issue to begin with. Just give a Shortsword Reach C, 1 and treat anything smaller as a Large Knife, and there you go, Shortswords have a niche.

As it is, if you don't do that, there is no reason to ever pick a Shortsword over a Long Knife. Ever.

Edit: Also, if you want more convincing: Take a look at this YouTube video. Note that these are, in GURPS terms, Falchions, which are Shortsword-sized and basically have +1 to cut and -1 to thrust, but are basically shortswords.

Now realize that what you just saw in GURPS is at a steep -4 penalty, and would be no harder with a broadsword in hand - in other words, there's no reason to do it. A bit of a far cry from the graceful, easy Reach C attack shown in the video and in the fechtbuch illustrations.

[DanHoward]

Yep. Merge the shortsword and longknife into the same weapon. Merge Shortsword and Broadsword skills (simply call it "One-Handed Sword"). Give the shortsword and broadsword the same thrusting damage.

[Jetman123]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Yep. Merge the shortsword and longknife into the same weapon. Get rid of the Shortsword skill and subsume it into Broadsword. Give the shortsword and broadsword the same thrusting damage.

Thanks for the reply, Mr. Howard! It's really interesting to hear your opinion. Idly, were you after such a rule change for Low-Tech? I've heard you comment a few times about changes that weren't accepted (or heard them secondhand) and I'm wondering idly if it really was just an oversight. I understand the Long Knife was introduced in Martial Arts - was it just that they didn't want to contradict that book?

[DanHoward]

IIRC we were told that we could introduce new weapons but we couldn't alter stats on the ones in Basic Set. That's why we now have longkinfe, long axe, longsword, etc. Ideally these weapons could have replaced short sword, great axe, and bastard sword instead of having both entries.

Another rule I would like to use is to penalise thrusting attacks by the Reach of the weapon. The further the hand is away from the point, the harder it is to place accurately. So a knife gets no penalty, a broadsword/shortsword gets -1 and a rapier gets -2. It adds verisimilitude and it makes shorter weapons a little more appealing for some players.