So I dropped my sword... how do I pick it up (in combat)

[RogerBacon]

I plan to make extensive use of disarming in an upcoming campaign (to reduce the lethality of combat) and I expect a fight when players think they can just bend down and pick up a disarmed weapon in one second. The disarm rules say the weapon flies one yard in a random direction. That means a step is all that would be required to reach it (not counting posture change). So what is the procedure to pick up a weapon from the ground? How long does it take? What sort of active defenses does one have while doing it?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by RogerBacon

I plan to make extensive use of disarming in an upcoming campaign (to reduce the lethality of combat) and I expect a fight when players think they can just bend down and pick up a disarmed weapon in one second. The disarm rules say the weapon flies one yard in a random direction. That means a step is all that would be required to reach it (not counting posture change). So what is the procedure to pick up a weapon from the ground? How long does it take? What sort of active defenses does one have while doing it?

Resolve it as a grapple of the weapon itself. I'd likely give a -2 to the attack if you're grabbing something with a smallish handle like a knife or sword handle. You might need a (free) change posture from standing to kneeling to reach a weapon on the floor. Technical Grappling has rules for how WELL that grip is established when you're struggling to do it, but all of that is made redundant by taking a Ready maneuver.

So, ultimately, in combat, you'll need to

1. Kneel (free) and make an attack to grapple the weapon by its grip
2. If using Technical Grappling and you roll well enough to establish sufficient Grip CP on your weapon to use it, then go right ahead. You're kneeling, but good to go.
3. If using the regular rules or if (2) doesn't get 'er done, take a Ready maneuver to make the weapon ready to use. Based on p. B364, you may Step and Ready while going from kneeling to standing.

***

So, short version

1) Attack to grab weapon at -2; this makes you kneel as well
2) Step and Ready while going from kneeling to standing
3) Attack, defend, and make merrry


Also, if you don't have it, there's rather a lot in Technical Grappling about weapons and disarms that if it's a major plot point, you might like.

[Kromm]

The by-the-book rules make it a two-second process:

Second 1: Assume a kneeling posture next to the item. This calls for a Change Posture maneuver. See p. B383. While kneeling, you may try any defense at -2, but since you don't have the weapon yet, you can't use it to parry.

Second 2: Ready the item while standing up. This calls for a Ready maneuver. Per p. B366, no roll is required to pick up a weapon that's just sitting there . . . just say "I pick it up." Per p. B364, you may stand up as the "step" part of your Ready. At this stage you're standing and have full defenses, and can parry with the weapon you just readied.

Only bother with rolls to grab an object when it's a moving or resisting foe, or when you're in close combat and need to roll vs. DX to get your hand in the right place (p. B391). But 95% of the time, you'll just go "I Change Posture next to the sword. I stand up and Ready the sword."

[PK]

Note that you can also use the Toe Flip technique (Average; DX-5 or appropriate Fast-Draw-5) to flip a weapon up into your hand in a single Ready maneuver. Failure wastes your turn, critical failure kicks the weapon away.

[RogerBacon]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The by-the-book rules make it a two-second process:

Second 1: Assume a kneeling posture next to the item. This calls for a Change Posture maneuver. See p. B383. While kneeling, you may try any defense at -2, but since you don't have the weapon yet, you can't use it to parry.

Second 2: Ready the item while standing up. This calls for a Ready maneuver. Per p. B366, no roll is required to pick up a weapon that's just sitting there . . . just say "I pick it up." Per p. B364, you may stand up as the "step" part of your Ready. At this stage you're standing and have full defenses, and can parry with the weapon you just readied.

Only bother with rolls to grab an object when it's a moving or resisting foe, or when you're in close combat and need to roll vs. DX to get your hand in the right place (p. B391). But 95% of the time, you'll just go "I Change Posture next to the sword. I stand up and Ready the sword."

Thanks. So it is, pretty much, as easy as I feared it would be. A successful disarm amounts to one round with limited defense options and two rounds of lost attacks. I know the players in my group will take that any day of the week. So it looks like disarming will not reduce the lethality of the combat in my case.
In most movies the guy who loses his weapon either runs away or gives up. Sometimes heroes dive and tumble to grab their weapon and it always looks like a lot of effort. OK, we'll see how it plays out.

[mlangsdorf]

If the weapon lands adjacent to the foe, it's pretty trivial for the foe to put their foot on top of it, at which point you can't toe-flip it or ready it trivially. At that point, people may very well choose to run away.

And don't discount the disadvantages of kneeling. You're at -2 to defend and can Retreat only by dropping prone - and if you're disarmed already, you can only make unarmed parries. Going from effective Parry 13 (skilled fighter with the +1 for Retreat) to Dodge 8 (kneeling dodge of 10 with no retreat) is pretty harsh. Even if the sword is somewhere that you grab quickly (if it's behind you, you had to turn around and open your flank to the foe, too, so that's another -2 to defend for most people) it still may be safer to back off.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by RogerBacon

Thanks. So it is, pretty much, as easy as I feared it would be. A successful disarm amounts to one round with limited defense options and two rounds of lost attacks. I know the players in my group will take that any day of the week. So it looks like disarming will not reduce the lethality of the combat in my case.
In most movies the guy who loses his weapon either runs away or gives up. Sometimes heroes dive and tumble to grab their weapon and it always looks like a lot of effort. OK, we'll see how it plays out.

Spending two maneuvers in combat barely moving and not even threatening to make any attacks is huge. If you don't have friends to cover you, you're inviting All Out Attacks (or Aimed ranged attacks), which you'll only have dodges against, and those at a penalty!

If your enemies are harmless enough that you can easily get away with taking the time to recover your weapon, by all means do so...but if they're actually dangerous, making it to the Ready maneuver is highly optimistic. And that's assuming they don't act specifically to keep the weapon away.

Incidentally, if you're in a desperate hurry to get your weapon back, remember that dropping prone is a free action. With a melee weapon, being prone may not be more attractive than being unarmed, and the time to get upright is considerable. But if you're going for a gun it is less punishing.

[Kalzazz]

Clever people will carry backup weapons they can just fastdraw and have at it for these very reasons, especially in the case of fairly light and fastdrawable weapons like swords and pistols

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Clever people will carry backup weapons

And/or have an unarmed skill so they can step into CC if they get disarmed.

(This is probably riskier than the backup weapon, but it's an option.)

[Kalzazz]

Yeah, unarmed skills are very handy to

Backup weapons though can conveniently often use the same (or defaulted) skills as main weapon though

For instance, if Joe Hero's main weapon is a broadsword, he could carry a second broadsword to use at full broadsword skill, or a lighter shortsword or long knife to use at broadsword -2

If his main weapon is a rifle, he could carry a pistol to use at Rifle -2

If his main weapon is a halberd? Well, uhm, he is out of luck. Dont get your halberd disarmed