Planets, gravity, G-experience, G-tolerance, and Free Fall skill

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by Brett

Hmm. That's a good catch. Looks like errata to me. That rule doesn't seem to be compatible with G-Experience being a 1-point to 10-point variable advantage.

Yes. That's the problem.

Originally Posted by Brett

THS is 3rd ed. No matter what it says or how clearly, it doesn't apply to 4th ed.

true. But if the 4e rule don't make sense, and the 3e have the exact same wording, i think looking at the rewrite in THS is worth it.

Originally Posted by Brett

No, the result is not the same at all. The halved penalty applies only in the "gravity field" that you have paid for.

Originally Posted by Brett

And I have to say, I wouldn't want the rules to work in such a way that experience in low gravity made you better in high gravity. E.g. a character comes from a planet with 1.0 gee, and acclimatises to a space station with 0.5 gee. This should not make him or her better off in 1.4 gee.

The rule pg 350 only take in consideration the full 10-pts g-experience.

Summary, assuming a 1g home gravity:

no g-experience:
.10 - .20 : -4/DX
.21 - .40 : -3/DX
.41 - .60 : -2/DX
.61 - .80 : -1/DX
.81 - 1.19 : no penalty
1.20 - 1.39 : -1/DX
1.40 - 1.59 : -2/DX
....

10 pts g-experience, rule p 350
.10 - .20 : -2/DX
.21 - .60 : -1/DX
.61 - 1.39 : no penalty
1.40 - 1.79 : -1/Dx
1.80 - 2.19 : -2/Dx
....

10 pts g-experience, rule p 57
.10 - .20 : -2/DX
.21 - .40 : -1.5/DX
.41 - .60 : -1/DX
.61 - .80 : -0.5/DX
.81 - 1.19 : no penalty
1.20 - 1.39 : -.5/DX
1.40 - 1.59 : -1/DX
...

If you round down, both are the same!

This only work with 10 pts g-experience.
For 1-pts g-experience... i don't know.
easiest is to say that you only halves the penalty in the bracket where your g-experience fall.

so , .16 g experience would give :

.10 - .20 : -2/DX (4 halved due to g-experience .16)
.21 - .40 : -3/DX
.41 - .60 : -2/DX
.61 - .80 : -1/DX
.81 - 1.19 : no penalty
1.20 - 1.39 : -1/DX
1.40 - 1.59 : -2/DX
....

By the way, pyramid 15 suggest that, for Action-ThS , you simplify this as each g-experience giving you an additional home gravity, with its own +-.2 no penalty zone. It is cinematic, of course.

Celjabba

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Brett

Hmm. That's a good catch. Looks like errata to me. That rule doesn't seem to be compatible with G-Experience being a 1-point to 10-point variable advantage.

IMO this just means that the penalty is halved for 1-point versions if said 1-point version applies to the gravity the character is currently experiencing.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

IMO this just means that the penalty is halved for 1-point versions if said 1-point version applies to the gravity the character is currently experiencing.

Exactly so. Halved penalty, not doubled increment.

There is a further problem that it is not clear at all what Basic means by "gravity field".

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Brett

Exactly so. Halved penalty, not doubled increment.

There is a further problem that it is not clear at all what Basic means by "gravity field".

Well, consider this weird interpretation:

When counting the 'distance' (in increments) to a given non-native gravity, you treat increments as double-sized if the non-native gravity in question is one of those listed under your G-XP.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, consider this weird interpretation:

When counting the 'distance' (in increments) to a given non-native gravity, you treat increments as double-sized if the non-native gravity in question is one of those listed under your G-XP.

I don't want weird interpretations. I want rules written in a clear and explicit style of which the intended meaning is immediately apparent to a harried GM and a slightly bewildered first-time player. Also, I want it clearly stated what is meant by "gravity field".

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Brett

I don't want weird interpretations. I want rules written in a clear and explicit style of which the intended meaning is immediately apparent to a harried GM and a slightly bewildered first-time player. Also, I want it clearly stated what is meant by "gravity field".

Sorry, didn't write the book, just tried to make sure it makes sense however you read it.

Gravity rules are wacky in general - see my thread about always being better off creating Heavy-Worlder characters as opposed to Light-Worlder (and the related rant about Pressure/Vacuum Support).

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Brett

I want it clearly stated what is meant by "gravity field".

Given that it takes this to explain gravity field, I'd rather they didn't waste page space on it.

As for Improved G-Tolerance not being listed as a learnable advantage, well, they don't list Common Sense either but it does crop up as experience for AIs.
Maybe an edited Learnable Advantage list is one more wish for the next print-run/ edition.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Given that it takes this to explain gravity field, I'd rather they didn't waste page space on it.

That is plainly not what they meant. If that had been what they meant, the gravity field of the Moon would have been a vector field pervading all of space at various values, not "0.16G".

[CousinX]

Originally Posted by Brett

These are serious problems for my SF setting, which involves PCs regularly travelling from planet to planet, with a strong emphasis on variety among those planets. I am strongly tempted to allow a character to buy a second or subsequent home gravity value for 5 character points. Can anyone see any problems with that?

Phil Master's article in Pyramid 3.15 - "Transhuman Action!" - addresses this for "cinematic" space campaigns in a way that made it clearer to me, and may resolve some of these issues for you....

Originally Posted by Pyramid 3.15, p. 8

The standard GURPS rules for different gravity (p. B350) make it impossible for a character ever to be fully effective in more than one level of gravity. At best, the G-Experience advantage reduces the penalties for unfamiliar gravity levels. This is really too detailed and insufficiently heroic for Action games, whose heroes should be able to look cool and effective in any situation encompassed by their schtick – which in Transhuman Action games, may well include adventuring in space and on other planets. So Transhuman Action uses a simplified rule: G-Experience for a different gravity level allows you to treat that level exactly as if it were your native gravity level. Thus, for example, someone born on Earth (native in 1G) who buys G-Experience (0.38G) never takes any penalties for operating in either Earth’s gravity field or that of Mars.

Note, further, that anyone can operate without penalty in conditions within 0.2G of their native level. This means that a character who has 1G (Earth-standard) as his native gravity, and who takes G-Experience with a level of 0.19 G, is fully effective in conditions from 0 G (free fall) to 0.38G and 0.81G to 1.19G. This covers every planet, moon, and major space station in the inner system, and everything except the gas giants in the outer system. Hence, for practical
Transhuman Space purposes, “not having to worry about variant gravity fields” costs as much as a perk – which is probably about right, stylistically, for Action games.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Brett

Unfortunately Improved G-Tolerance is not a learnable advantage. You can't buy it to represent acclimatising to a new planet's gravity.

Where does it say that? The description says "Normal humans are limited to 10
points in this trait."