GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by swampthing

Even at that, it's hard to see how any collection of monsters is going to be generic. I think what they really mean is "GURPS <my favorite genre> Monster Compendium."

Yes and that "favorite genre" is Fantasy in most cases.

Not all GURPS players play fantasy campaigns, perhaps not even the majority of GURPS players... But the great majority of GURPS players who want a Monster Compendium, DO play a fantasy campaign of some sort.

[kmunoz]

I submitted a proposal for an e23 bestiary supplement (real-world predators) about a year ago and was told they were already preparing a larger scale bestiary (unlike the kinds that they had listed on their submissions page). I haven't heard of anything along those lines since; I suspect it may have fallen by the wayside just like the prior attempts did.

Right now the closest thing 4e has to a large-scale bestiary is my PDF, in my .sig. (Someday I'll get around to updating it again.)

[Nater Potater]

Originally Posted by Lupo

Don't be fooled by the topic title - most people actually mean "GURPS Monster Compendium" when they say GURPS Bestiary.

No, I meant like the 3rd edition's Bestiary, a hodge-podge of real and imagined creatures. There's enough monsters probably in Dungeon Fantasy and Creatures of the Night, no?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Nater Potater

No, I meant like the 3rd edition's Bestiary, a hodge-podge of real and imagined creatures. There's enough monsters probably in Dungeon Fantasy and Creatures of the Night, no?

Creatures of the Night is directly aimed at the horror genre (and it's various subtypes) and, while some are adaptable to a "Killing monsters in tunnels" type game, many just pain aren't.

The only straight up "monsters" in DF are a small set of samples in DF2 - there are racial template for "monstrous" races in DF3, but a racial template is not the same as a monster. Even ogres, without skills and equipment, are basically toast at the hands of armed, armored, and trained adventurers, and lacking skills means no really useful tactical advice can be given to GMs.

The templates in Companions are useful, but the Servitors are a pile of lenses (with no equipment) and aren't "ready to run", animals (even smart and unusually big animals) are grist to most 250 point parties mills as opponents, and the familiars are... well, small and crunchy.

The elementals, spirits, and demons from Summoners can be pressed into service, but like Servitors and the racial templates, most of them aren't "ready to run".

[Stormcrow]

It's funny how most GURPS players want to do it all themselves and customize the wazoo out of their characters, but when it comes to monsters, which are much easier to create, everyone suddenly gets timid and wants the work done for them. Why is that?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

It's funny how most GURPS players want to do it all themselves and customize the wazoo out of their characters, but when it comes to monsters, which are much easier to create, everyone suddenly gets timid and wants the work done for them. Why is that?

Because we want a common "language" of monsters, animals and other assorted critters, so that we can discuss them with others. This requires an outside (of the gaming group) source that can be referenced.

There is also the factor that if the work is done for us, by SJ Games, then we can assume a high quality product that is well researched, well documented/tested and (near) universally useful between campaigns. Especially the natural critters rather than (sometimes setting specific) monsters.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

It's funny how most GURPS players want to do it all themselves and customize the wazoo out of their characters, but when it comes to monsters, which are much easier to create, everyone suddenly gets timid and wants the work done for them. Why is that?

I do not think that everyone is timid when it comes to making their own monsters. Some of the people that are asking for a Bestiary might belong to a subset of gamers that are happy to have more of the work done for them... one less thing to worry about, and so on.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

It's funny how most GURPS players want to do it all themselves and customize the wazoo out of their characters, but when it comes to monsters, which are much easier to create, everyone suddenly gets timid and wants the work done for them. Why is that?

I think #1, you're being insanely broad by saying "everyone gets timid and wants the work done for them". Provide me with proper survey results before you say that, because otherwise it's an empty claim with no backup.

I can offer evidence to the contrary, like the large number of monster writeups in the forums, and several monster collection projects.

#2 - Never underestimate the power of lazyness. Based on e23 sales, at least 1000 people are happy using the templates in DF1 (not counting hard copies bought at conventions, and not counting groups where one person has the book and the other two to four players borrow it for character creation). Pre-made, ready to go monsters are just as useful as pre-made character templates and pre-made racial templates.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Provide me with proper survey results before you say that, because otherwise it's an empty claim with no backup.

I cannot be sure, of course, but 'everyone' might have been meant more rhetorically than literally. I think the intent was to ask why so many people wanted a book of published creatures [instead of creating or converting on their own, ferrinstance].

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

I cannot be sure, of course, but 'everyone' might have been meant more rhetorically than literally. I think the intent was to ask why so many people wanted a book of published creatures [instead of creating or converting on their own, ferrinstance].

It was pretty insultingly worded for a rhetorical technique. As someone who falls in both categories (someone who makes up or converts their own, and someone who would like to spend more of that time doing something else) it seemed both excessively broad and designed to slight both people that describe GURPS as a toolkit (in a "Haha, caught you you hypocritical pre-made using bastard" sort of way) and people who could do with pre-made resources (who are apparently Doing GURPS Wrong).

Which is just, kind of, wow.