Ninja Stealth Assassination

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Anthony

A brain hit with enough force to crush the skull is not unpredictable. However, it's hard to do while crawling, and not particularly stealthy (the sentry may not scream, but the thumping, cracking, and splashing noises are likely to be noticed).

But those are realtively quiet. I mean with a garrotte you could have really good sentries do things like draw and fire their pistols and you can't do much to stop them, that will draw attention.

Then there is always having your sentries have dead mans switches

[Verjigorm]

I stand by the baseball bat to the head approach for killing someone as rapidly as possible. It's far more reliable than slicing the throat and hoping someone will fall unconcious. You're not going to do enough damage through stabbing to kill someone in one blow. However, a good stab, followed by a cut, should work fairly well. If you can place someone into negatives, then they risk passing out. However, healthy and fit folks arn't so likely to pass out.

So then it comes to getting into the brain. From behind, it's quite possible to jam a knife through someone's skull. And that's a very lethal wound.

I would imagine the commandos preferred to slit throats, because steel pot helmets cover the skull, and increase the DR. That's just no good.

So, if the head is covered by a helmet, go for the throat. Well, if you'd like.

The kidneys, Heart and Lungs all make capable targets too. Thrust through the ribs, and you can penetrate someone's heart. Do this a few times, and they should go down. Easier to hit too, so you can attack twice, rather than determined. Stab someone twice in the vitals with d6 or d6+ impaling, and they should be well under the weather.

Choke holds and necksnaps work pretty dern good though. A judo/wrestling chokehold applied by a skilled practicioneer would work wonders. Wrestling at dx+2[8] gives +2 to ST for wrestling manuevers. Lifting ST applies to grapples and is fairly cheap to purchases. in any case, an average(ST10) wrestler can hold almost any man in a chokehold if he's well trained in wrestling and choke holds. They just arn't as quick. Generally really quiet, and really clean.

Choking someone out and then dragging him into a closet, is alot stealthier than slicing his throat open and spraying his blood all over the place. Quieter and cleaner too than the baseball bats or mauls.

The question is, wouldn't a nija use all of these?

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's presumably not significantly more instant than simply severing the major arteries of the neck -- the brain won't shut down until enough blood runs out, which takes a few seconds, and is capable of some minimal level of function even without oxygen, though it probably isn't at the level of consciousness.

The whole point of Dr Beaurieux's report was to provide evidence that there is still consciousness after decapitation. One would need to travel to somewhere like Saudi Arabia (where public beheadings are still praticed) to further study this subject using modern equipment

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Choking someone out and then dragging him into a closet, is alot stealthier than slicing his throat open and spraying his blood all over the place. Quieter and cleaner too than the baseball bats or mauls.

The question is, wouldn't a nija use all of these?

WHy is grappleing him so stealthy? He has time to react and respond makeing him more likely to make noise.

[Verjigorm]

Blacksmith: It's allready been proven that an average man vs an average man, the knife to the throat isn't too reliable a method for taking someone out. You rely on the knife blow killing/disabling instantly. That's not something that you can do reliably against the common man, as the common man.

I perhaps have taken too much for granted, but I have assumed that as this regards NINJA!(sorry, Tenchu got to me too) that were are speaking of the complete surprise and therefore the ninja has 1d seconds of freedom to act in.

if you do not want your target to take any actions that may alert others, then you have to be able to render him unconcious in one blow. Vitals or Brain is the only credible solution here.

Now, if given the 1d seconds of shock and confusion, then the chokehold is stealthier due to it leaving less physical evidence behind. No blood stains, and no shouted alerts. You have a reliable, lethal means of execution, that is very quiet and leaves little in the way of warning to other sentries.

If you wish to be quickabout it, a goodly amount of strength and the neck snap technique can serve well to. With wrestling at dx+2, our average nija vs. average victim has a ST of 12 for wrestling, such as necksnapping. If he bought up the technique, then he will be on attribute, and able to beat his opponent with regularity, snapping the neck. Enough strength and you can easily be throwing 2d necksnapping damage. That can average enough to force a major wound, and defintely put one into the negatives.

And all this without bloodspray.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Blacksmith: It's allready been proven that an average man vs an average man, the knife to the throat isn't too reliable a method for taking someone out. You rely on the knife blow killing/disabling instantly. That's not something that you can do reliably against the common man, as the common man.

I perhaps have taken too much for granted, but I have assumed that as this regards NINJA!(sorry, Tenchu got to me too) that were are speaking of the complete surprise and therefore the ninja has 1d seconds of freedom to act in.

Where do you get that? Yes they are stunned from the suprise but they get rolls each round to get out of it, and with combat reflex's and such it is not that much a given. We where talking about more realistic characters as well as ninja. The ninja uses powerblow and has multipal attacks to deal with so that is now that gets out of the issue.

But say a special forces guy(resonably realistic setting say 200 points no cinemantic abilities). How is it best for him to take out a sentry? the normal thing seems to be grapleing and that can make noise if he gets much of a chance for an action, and most of these ways are going to give him some chance.



if you do not want your target to take any actions that may alert others, then you have to be able to render him unconcious in one blow. Vitals or Brain is the only credible solution here.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

Where do you get that? Yes they are stunned from the suprise but they get rolls each round to get out of it, and with combat reflex's and such it is not that much a given.

No, if they're suffering from "Total surprise", they don't start getting IQ rolls to recover till after 1d seconds of freezing, then a success on the IQ roll means they have to do nothing till the end of the turn and can then act for the rest of the combat, a failure means they are still stunned. Exception: those with combat reflexes are only treated as partially surprised. See page 393.

So if you roll a 1 and succeed at your first IQ roll, you have 2 turns of Do Nothing.

[zorg]

Also, an average guard probably won't have CR anyway.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by zorg

Also, an average guard probably won't have CR anyway.

So what? Who says they are average?

[Anthony]

If a special forces guy runs into a non-average guard, it's perfectly reasonable that he also runs into trouble.