Flight/Walk on Air while sleeping?

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Gadget based Flight/Walk on Air (which conceivably uses energy other than the user's).

Ah. Well, if hovering is no more draining to the character than sitting around chatting (and the Gadget's energy supply is effectively unlimited), I'd go with the +10% version (can rest/sleep while hovering). If actual flight doesn't drain the character at all, I'd go with the +50% version (can rest/sleep while flying). Note that these values are just ballparked, and may be over- (or even under-) priced.

As for Walk on Air, effects that knock you down (Slams, knockback, stunning, etc) automatically cancel the Walk on Air effect (text: "If you get knocked down or slip, you fall!"), indicating that it's an active sort of thing. I'd think falling asleep would do the same. I'd probably stat "Sleep on Air" as a +20% Enhancement (same end price as the Flight Enhancement above).

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

It's not listed in the Advantage entry, but in Campaigns, p.354, there's a box that indicates that flying functions the same way as hiking/running, which do cost fatigue. p.427 notes that simply walking around is strenuous enough to count the character as not resting - certainly flying would be more strenuous than walking around!
[...]
If you can't rest while flying (or hovering), you shouldn't be able to sleep while doing so either.

yea that the key your argument rice sole on Activity. many forms of light that might be built with either flight or walking represents a neutral buoyancy that for them hovering is NO difference than it for for other to laydown. hence there is not inherce about that ability that prevents such res describe by the OP

[SuedodeuS]

"Neutral Buoyancy" is a justification for Flight, just like "Rocket Powered Feet." If you want additional abilities than what Flight gives (can rest/sleep in air for neutral buoyancy, or can roast enemies with rocket powered feet), you should have to pay for them.

In Powers, Flight is mentioned as an example of an active, switchable Advantage. It is explicitly (albeit as an example) mentioned as turning off when the character becomes unconscious. I think this goes a long way toward indicating that ordinary Flight (including hovering) is considered to be at least somewhat draining. Thus, I feel that allowing the character to rest while hovering should be an Enhancement. If you want to be able to rest/sleep while hovering, regardless of justification, it should cost +10% (provided I'm pricing the Enhancement properly). If, as GM, someone else feels hovering should be no different from laying down on the ground, he or she can simply consider Flight as already having this "enhancement," at no charge.

[transmetahuman]

IIRC, Powers has FP loss for long-term exertion as one of those optional switches the GM decides on for his game. So, if default Flight or WoA uses that option in your game, I would call it a Perk to have a truly effortless version you could sleep through. That fits with established "this switch is on (off) for me even though the GM has it off (on) for the rest of the campaign" perks. SFX decides whether you'd drift with the wind, move unconsciously like an earthbound sleeper might roll around in his sleep, sleepwalk, etc. Even +5% is too expensive, considering the jump between long term exertion and Costs 1 FP. Also considering you arguably get it free with your Lighter Than Air or Gadget (Flying Carpet) limitation.

[Figleaf23]

Flight is simply Move, but off the ground.

[nick012000]

I'd definately allow someone with Flight (Lighter than air) to sleep while flying. Of course, the downside is that you can't control your flight all that well, either.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

IIRC, Powers has FP loss for long-term exertion as one of those optional switches the GM decides on for his game. So, if default Flight or WoA uses that option in your game, I would call it a Perk to have a truly effortless version you could sleep through. That fits with established "this switch is on (off) for me even though the GM has it off (on) for the rest of the campaign" perks. SFX decides whether you'd drift with the wind, move unconsciously like an earthbound sleeper might roll around in his sleep, sleepwalk, etc. Even +5% is too expensive, considering the jump between long term exertion and Costs 1 FP. Also considering you arguably get it free with your Lighter Than Air or Gadget (Flying Carpet) limitation.

Flight's included in that section, but as I mentioned earlier, Basic Set lays out that flying is the same as hiking/running. FP costs for flight are optional, but so are FP costs for travel in general. Indeed, I'd say it's both unfair and unrealistic to apply FP costs for land travel and not do so for air travel. And, while effortless hovering would be Perk-territory (+10% - that is, +4 points - is probably far too costly), effortless Flight should be far more expensive. You're talking about the ability to fly over ground at twice the rate you could run, while restoring FP. That last sentence had a lot of emphases, but I think that's important - this isn't Perk-territory stuff!

As for Lighter Than Air and Gadget, I'll reiterate what I said before - it doesn't matter why you have an ability outside of the default, you still need to pay for it. The LTA Limitation doesn't (in my opinion) include effortless hovering, it simply makes you susceptible to the prevailing winds (for good or ill). Gadget just means your stuff can be stolen and/or broken - your rocket boots don't give you a free Innate Attack just because you described them as "rocket boots." Limitations should not give you a free Enhancement as part of the package.

Of course, if a GM disagrees with me, he or she can run things however he or she sees fit. This is GURPS, after all.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

Flight's included in that section, but as I mentioned earlier, Basic Set lays out that flying is the same as hiking/running. FP costs for flight are optional, but so are FP costs for travel in general. Indeed, I'd say it's both unfair and unrealistic to apply FP costs for land travel and not do so for air travel. And, while effortless hovering would be Perk-territory (+10% - that is, +4 points - is probably far too costly), effortless Flight should be far more expensive. You're talking about the ability to fly over ground at twice the rate you could run, while restoring FP. That last sentence had a lot of emphases, but I think that's important - this isn't Perk-territory stuff!

I'm with you on most of your points. I don't know that tmh was arguing for a Perk allowing completely effortless Flight... he seemed to be talking just about the "hovering while sleeping" ability. I note (as he did) that a -5% Costs Fatigue limit on Flight would amount to a savings of 2 points, while costing you 1FP per minute of flying. That does seem to suggest that a Perk is about right. It still ought to not count as 'resting' for the purpose of regaining fatigue.

[Ulzgoroth]

Pyramid, April 09, p8 brings us the Soaring enhancement. +10%, flying at or below 50% of your maximum speed does not cost any FP or count as effort at all. Explicitly including the ability to sleep while flying.

Alternatively, Compartmentalized Mind (only for flying when asleep) could work...

[Charleson Mambo]

What about Flight bought with Always On?

Would that allow for sleeping in mid air?
(I could use this for an NPC in a Supers game.)


Charleson Mambo