Vehicle Combat Rules to use for a GURPS Autoduel Con Game

[DAT]

What are your thoughts on the rules to use for vehicle combat in a GURPS Autoduel RPG for a Con?
The options I was considering are:
- Use the Car Wars rules (with the tweaks in GURPS Autoduel)
- Use the GURPS 3e vehicle rules
- Use the GURPS 4e rules

I was intending to use GURPS 4e rules for the rest of the game, but wasn’t sure about vehicle combat. I haven’t really used the 4e vehicle rules for vehicle versus vehicle, so appreciate any thoughts.

The vehicle combat rules need to be picked up quickly for the Con, so I don’t want them too complex.

I don’t currently own Car Wars, and it has been a couple decades since I played last, but I sort of remember it as not too bad (someone with more recent experience, please correct me as needed).

A bonus of using the rules in Autoduel, is I can lift the sample vehicles from them and don’t have to create several vehicle in a new system.

So what are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance
-Dan

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by DAT

What are your thoughts on the rules to use for vehicle combat in a GURPS Autoduel RPG for a Con?
The options I was considering are:
- Use the Car Wars rules (with the tweaks in GURPS Autoduel)
- Use the GURPS 3e vehicle rules
- Use the GURPS 4e rules

I was intending to use GURPS 4e rules for the rest of the game, but wasn’t sure about vehicle combat. I haven’t really used the 4e vehicle rules for vehicle versus vehicle, so appreciate any thoughts.

The vehicle combat rules need to be picked up quickly for the Con, so I don’t want them too complex.

I don’t currently own Car Wars, and it has been a couple decades since I played last, but I sort of remember it as not too bad (someone with more recent experience, please correct me as needed).

A bonus of using the rules in Autoduel, is I can lift the sample vehicles from them and don’t have to create several vehicle in a new system.

So what are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance
-Dan

Oy veh! Where to start?

The three biggest considerations in making a recommendation are: how much time do you have between now and the con; what resources do you have available; and how much stuff do you need to develop on your own? The other big consideration is what is going to make or break it for you in terms of the experience you want to present.

Car Wars has been through a number of iterations. I think its currently on its fifth edition. I haven't played it since the Deluxe Car Wars boxed set (its second edition?). I think the game underwent some major changes to its look when played in its third edition (Killer Kart vs. Piranha?). Playing Car Wars straight would be easy enough, if you have Autoduel available to convert GURPS character stats to the relevant Car Wars stats. OTOH, Car Wars is a boardgame and some GMs don't like mixing boardgames with RPGs because a boardgame, even with their characters played in it, takes the players outside their characters. I presume from your listed options, that isn't one of your concerns. The downsides of using Car Wars: actual vehicle combat is similar to GURPS, but not identical; there is a potential embarrassment of riches in Car Wars, depending on the supplements you own, so there's potentially a lot of work in cutting down what's available into what's going to see actual use; depending on the edition there can be a lot of rules, so you either need to pare the rules down to what you actually need (e.g., if you aren't going to use gasoline engines, boats, tanks or aircraft, you don't need the rules from: Duel Track, Boat Wars, Tanks or Aeroduel) or you need to accept that the rules aren't going to be a quick study.

Autoduel for GURPS Third Edition had two editions. The second edition had a higher page count, a green cover and a square spine. It was specifically for use with GURPS Vehicles, so you'll definitely want to convert your Car Wars vehicles over to their Vehicles versions. That's a bit of work, even after you pare your list of vehicles down. The first edition had 64 pages (I think), a staple bound cover, and IIRC, the cover art was from Sunday Drivers. This edition was pre-Vehicles and had its own system for converting Car Wars vehicles. On the upside, the conversion was component for component with the component names remaining the same, so conversions are straight forward as long as you don't run into a component that Car Wars came out with after Autoduel (in that case, look for something similar that exists and use your best judgment [in other words, you're on your own]).

The rules for vehicular combat in GURPS Third Edition and Vehicles are compatible, with Vehicles being a little more detailed, but containing rules for situations you may not need (e.g., aerial combat). On the whole, I'd call these rules satisfying and fairly quick to learn. The downside is that the stats and rules won't completely mesh with GURPS Fourth Edition. If you are familiar with the vehicular combat rules for Fourth Edition you need to be sure that you know how the rules from Third Edition differ, and no doubt, some of those differences will be subtle. Still, that's a downside for you personally, not to the ease of teaching the rules to your players.

Your best bet may be to just use the vehicular combat rules for GURPS Fourth Edition. The biggest downside is that converting the Car Wars vehicles over is going to be a lot of work (I think) and that is potentially going to make this the most problematic option for you.

The other point is that the more you deviate from the background provided, the more work you have to do in setting up the background (for a convention game, you shouldn't need to make more than a few minor tweaks to the background).

Anyway, those are my opinions, I hope they help.

[Captain Joy]

Just make sure every character has something to do: driving rolls, attack rolls, etc. Are you planning on using a hex map?

[DAT]

Thanks! Lots of good ideas. Let me give some more background and answer the questions of what I have, what I can get, and what I was envisioning doing.

The Con I’m thinking of prepping the Autoduel game for is next February (although if I’m done in time, I may try running it at a different Con mid-January). However, I need to decide and submit my proposed games to run next month (September). I run three different games at the Con, so need to schedule the prep of all three between now and the beginning of January. Time is my dearest resource.

I have the GURPS 4e books; the GURPS 3e Basic, Compendiums I & II, Autoduel, Vehicles, and many others; and have a nice hex Mega-Mat.

I don’t currently own Car Wars, but could pickup a copy from W23. If the current set has decent “minis”/carboard markers, I was thinking about getting it for them, regardless if I use the rules or not.

What I was envisioning …
The PreGen PCs would include/have:
1. A motorcycle scout on a “Police Cycle”, customized with a Stealth Suite, IR System, and Machine Gun or Micro-Missile Launcher in place of the Recoilless Rifle.
2. A Trucker with a “Roughrider” Tractor, with a “Type Two ‘Reefer’” trailer
3. A Truck Gunner, who can help with the “Roughrider/Type Two” armaments
4. A cross-country courier with a “Torch” van (which I may bump up its arms/armor and add a long-range radio, but reduce its acceleration to match the cars
5. A van gunner, to help with the “Torch’s” armaments
6. An auto duelist with a “Flamberge (Turret Model)”
7. An auto duelist with a “Iron Horse”
8. An auto duelist with a “Piranha, I”
9. An auto duelist with a “Piranha, II”
I will probably get 5 to 8 players. I can have the Trucker and his Gunner be NPCs easy enough, and drop the Courier and the Van if I am low on Players.

The setup I was planning, would give the players a couple different route options, with different encounters on the different routes.

1 route would be the heavy vehicle combat option. Where the player would have a mook biker gang fight or 2 (jumped by a biker gang on “Spiders” with the leader on an “Outlander”), a mook bandit fight (with the bandits driving “Iron Horses”), and then a worth/boss bandit battle (including “Police Cars” and a “Magnum MicroDuelist”) as the climax. In between there will be a couple stops at Fortress Truck Stops, where there will be role-playing opportunities, and at least one encounter where a stealthy approach by the Scout will be beneficial.

2 routes would have more stealthy approach encounters, where the group can use the Scout’s vehicle’s abilities to their advantage. Different role-playing encounters, including combat out of the cars. But will still have 1 or 2 biker gang mook fights and the worth/boss bandit battle as the climax.
For each of the vehicle combat scenarios, the group will be travelling on a 2 lane road (sometimes as part of a divided highway). I was going to setup the hexmat with 3 straight lanes and a curved lane or 2, and have the cars/trucks/cycles/van be colored cutout note card paper rectangles (unless I can find cheap matchbox ones the right size). I would have various obstacles (wrecks, barricades, holes in bridges, etc.) made up from cutout note car too. The truck would stay on a middle lane, and various opponents and obstacles would move up from the first lane, and other opponents would approach from the third lane. The other PC vehicles would maneuver onto the lanes in front or behind the truck, going after opponents, playing blocker, etc.

Coming from the Car Wars roots, I was thinking each PC vehicle (and worthy/boss opponent vehicle) would have a sheet, showing a vehicle outline with scratch off marks for ablative armor points, component HP/HT, etc. As hits were taken, vehicle damage, ammo usage, etc could be marked off. The thought was there would be lots of Per, driving, and gunner rolls during the vehicle combats.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by DAT

…I was thinking each PC vehicle (and worthy/boss opponent vehicle) would have a sheet, showing a vehicle outline with scratch off marks for ablative armor points, component HP/HT, etc. As hits were taken, vehicle damage, ammo usage, etc could be marked off.

I think that is a wonderful idea.

I would definitely sign up for this game where I attending the con.