08-05-2009, 08:28 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
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GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Clarification
Fixed Equations (Fxd): Small Craft Pilots and Crew Small Craft Technicians Flight Control Crewman Engineering Command Section Ship Troops Cargo Service Section Gunnery Section Non-Fixed Equations Maintenance Section (Mnt) Medical Section (Med) Life Support Section (Lif) Workshops (Wrk) General Service Section (Gen) My Problem with the non-fixed equations is that they are co-dependent on each other and I think its possible to calculate for their value BUT not with layman math. Total Crew (Crw) Fxd + (Mnt = (Crw/40)) + (Med = (Crw/40)) + (Lif = (Crw/80)) + (Wrk = (Crw/60)) + (Gen = (Crw/60)) = Crw See My problem?, the variables are dependent in the final output variables. Does the Errata or FAQ people have any answers to this. If not, I recommend making Mnt like Engineering section but dependent on other elements (dtons of ?), Lif, Med, and Gen depend on Ship Quarters (and a way to generate recommended working ship quarters), and Wrk depend on Mnt. (why is it that 3e has more stuff on this?) ECM system rules EW system rules Convert the 3e Shipdesign Tables? At least an unofficial one, because there is no ISW plan in the future. I'm making a consolidated table set, combining 3e and 4e ship designs, but there is so much left to interpretation of doctrine I'm thinking of basing the TL10s on Honorverse-ish. A few Other things..
Scenario. Pirate warnings with idle or missile probe/Beacons. Instead of broadcasting, pirates can dictate their demands with the probe/beacon (using them as to relay tight beam messages) while maintain silent running. Worst case senario for the pirates, they use decoys to confuse the prey of thier actual vector and force a "detection" reroll for the Scan officer or the scan officer will fail to see the "switch" (if he makes it, he will see two opfors and will have to make a large enough margin of success to determine which is the enemy ship). This basically lets a 20dton assault craft sneak up on a free trader (like in somalia's coast) and board. Even if probes will cost as much as 1M-3M its worth the cash win of a intact prize. |
08-06-2009, 03:56 PM | #2 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Quote:
Crw = Fxd + Crw/40 + Crw/40 + Crw/80 + Crw/60 + Crw/60 Crw = Fxd + 6 Crw / 240 + 6 Crw / 240 + 3 Crw / 240 + 4 Crw / 240 + 4 Crw / 240 Crw = Fxd + 23 Crw / 240 240 Crw = 240 Fxd + 23 Crw 217 Crw = 240 Fxd Crw = 240 Fxd / 217 Check my work... Quote:
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08-07-2009, 12:26 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Quote:
the Variable Crew is about 10.6% of the fixed value crew. Fxd x 10.6% = Crw Then i divide this by .26 x Crw = Maintenance .26 x Crw = Medical .13 x Crw = Life Support .17 x Crw = Workshop .17 x Crw = General Services So If I have a fixed crew of 600 I have a variable crew of 64+ (rounded to a whole person of course) 17 = Maintenance 17 = Medical 8 = Life Support 11 = Workshop 11 = General Services Wow, got it! Thanks Anaraxes! I'm embarrassed by how much I forgot. I wish they put it in the book in simpler terms. |
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08-11-2009, 01:18 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Playing with GTISW stats again.
I've noticed that 100spaces and Tons of Repulsors are = to 100 spaces worth of missile racks. Since I could mount missile racks as a bay weapon, i could just match repulsors dTon to dTon but have the flexibility to use my missile superiority against other enemy units. Also Ive noticed that there are allowances for redundancy in Ship Scanners and Command Positions. Does that mean I can have up to 3 Separate Scanners and 3 opportunities to roll for detection? Interestingly, in GM's fiat I've noticed that scanners actually serve the same role as communications equipment and EW. So by this reason, I can have a dedicated scanner serve the role of EW. EW can probably do the job of sensor disruptor in UT. They screw up missile targeting and detection adding a ton of noise and false info that would screw up identification. 20-DTON Heavy Fighter This small craft was used by both Imperial and Terran forces for missile screening (point defense, reconnaissance) and to add to the missile volley for larger missile batteries Tech Level: 10. Hull: 20-dton Needle/Wedge Airframe hull (6.6ksf, 6.6tons, $2.4), dDR 13 armor (42.9tons, +$0.5148), Stealth (+1.54tons, +$0.462). Systems: 4.5 Maneuver Drive (4.5dtons, 90MW, 900tons of thrust, 18tons, $4.5), Standard Bridge (2.5dtons, 12tons, $1) (80-man days), Model-3 Sensors (Scan 18) (2dtons, 24tons, $8, -8MW), Heavy Turret (2dtons, $0.2, 1.5 tons) (2 Pulse Lasers) (2dtons, $1M, 6tons, 20MW), 3 Missile Racks (3dtons, 8.4tons, $3.33 ), 6-1/2 Fusion Power (6.5dtons, 26tons, $19.5, 130MW), 1/2 Bunk (1dton, $0.005, 0.25tons), 1/2 Cargo (5). Statistics: EMass 143 tons, Lmass 148 tons, Cost M$40, SM +6, ASig +0, Hull dHP 25, life support capacity 5, sAccel 6 G, no jump capacity, Top Air Speed 4,500 mph. Crew: Command Section (3 officers), Gunnery Section (2 crewman) .Total 3 officer, 2 crewman 5-DTON Stealth Sensor and EW Drone The stealth sensor drones are meant to go in advance, hide and watch with powerful passive sensors, direct Screening Pod action, or act as a valuable last ditch ship ECM decoy. Typically deployed with launch tubes. Tech Level: 10. Hull: 5-dton Needle/Wedge Airframe hull (3ksf, 3tons, $1), dDR 10 armor (0.77tons, +$0.01), Stealth (+0.75tons, +$0.225). Systems: 1 Maneuver Drive (1Dtons, 20MW, 200tons of thrust, 4tons, $1), Hardened High Capacity Mainframe (complexity 11) (0.5dtons, 0.2tons, $0.6), Model-3 Sensors (Scan 18) (2dtons, 24tons, $8, -8MW), Fusion Power (1.5dtons, 6tons, $4.5, 30MW). Statistics: EMass 39 tons, Lmass 39 tons, Cost $15M, SM +2, ASig -4, Hull dHP 15, no life support capacity, sAccel 5 G, no jump capacity, Top Air Speed 4,500 mph. Crew: Command Section (3 officers), Gunnery Section (2 crewman) .Total 3 officer, 2 crewman. 5-DTON Screening Pod. The screening Pod is meant to be strategically deployed to screen for missiles and enemy movement and add to missile volley. They also serve as mobile turrets adding to the point defense force numbers. Typically deployed with launch tubes. A carrier usually can launch up to 100 of these. Tech Level: 10. Hull: 5-dton Needle/Wedge Airframe hull (3ksf, 3tons, $1), dDR 10 armor (0.77tons, +$0.01), Stealth (+0.75tons, +$0.225). Systems: 1/2 Maneuver Drive (0.5Dtons, 10MW, 100tons of thrust, 2tons, $0.5), Hardened High Capacity Mainframe (complexity 11) (piloting, artillery, and gunnery) (0.5dtons, 0.2tons, $0.6), Model-0 Sensors (Scan 14) (0.5dtons, 6tons, $2, -2MW), Fusion Power (0.5Dtons, 2tons, $1.5, 10MW), 2 Missile Racks (2dtons, 5.6tons, $2.22 ), TL9 Pulse Laser (1dton, 3tons, $0.5, -2.5MW). Statistics: EMass 23 tons, Lmass 23 tons, Cost $8.6M, SM +2, ASig -4, Hull dHP 15, no life support capacity, sAccel ; 2.5G with full compliment 2.2G (4G w/ M-drive only; 3.2G M-drive and Scan), no jump capacity, Top Air Speed 4,500 mph. Crew: None Interesting Ship Doctrines from Honorverse to Traveller: 10,000Dton Missile Pod carriers armed with jump-2 x2, 200 missile racks, 70 Pulse Lasers (for long ranged point defense), Accell-5G. To carry and launch as much as 120 missile pods in 1 round mixed with sensor and EW drones 1800dton. Missile Saturation can reach as much as 400. Point Defense has as much as 310 (+EW if possible) and high mobility. If Sensor EW Drones can act as Decoys together with the 3 maneuver limit of missiles, ships can evade clusters of missiles at the cost of a drone. Different Factions could possibly have "racial" advantages. Like +1 to EW, +1 to Sensors, +0.5G to drive efficiency, +1 to gunnery... etc. to save on added paper work on simulating slight differences in technological advantage. Last edited by nik1979; 08-11-2009 at 01:30 AM. |
08-13-2009, 12:36 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Confusing Hangar Creation Rules:
Quote:
Hangar Bay Mass = #Ships *1Ton So a carrier with around an average of 100 small craft of variable size and numbers will have X dtons? Its kind of confusing. Is there a better way to state this formula? |
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08-17-2009, 05:24 AM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Trying to fill in the gaps of ISW, GT3e and UT4e.
How i calculated the damage: [Dice x 3.5 (dice average) x 10 (from deca scale) ]^3 to get energy from 250mm to 500mm magnitude factor of 3 Then ^1/3 the energy to get the damage, and divided it by 3.5 to get the dice. HEMP 250mm missile $0.03M dDmg TL9-6dx2(10) cr inc, TL10-6dx2+12(10) cr inc; Range 3 maneuvers; Wt. 0.15T HEMP 500mm missile $0.1M dDmg TL9-6dx3(10) cr inc, TL10-6dx3+18(10) cr inc.; Range 5 maneuvers; Wt. 0.5T Fine Missiles, +1 Guidance roll, x2 Cost Very Fine Missiles, +2 Guidance roll, x5 Cost Nuclear Missiles UT156 Cost x1,000 Nuke 250mm (10 Kilo-Ton) $30M dDmg 6dx400 cr (8400 dmg) Nuke 500mm (1 Mega-Ton) $100M dDmg 6dx2000 cr (42,000 dmg) Special note of Nuclear Missiles: It usually does proximity kills, allowing them to overcome repulsors. Quote:
Cost x10 X-Ray Laser Heads 250mm Gunnery-15+2Acc, dDmg 4d(5) burn, ROF20, range 2/6 X-Ray Laser Heads 500mm Gunnery-15+2Acc, dDmg 7d(5) burn, ROF20, range 2/6 Quote:
Drones causes all Targeting and Scanning Electronics that pass by their affected area (1 hex) to Make a "Save" or lose acquisition (roll the missile's guidance system skill, which is typically 15). The Save Penalty is equal to Drone's EW rating (-3 at TL9, -4 at TL10). Cost x2 for a Fine EW Drone (improve the drones effectiveness by 1), Cost x5 for a Very Fine EW Drone (improve the drone's effectiveness by 2). $0.16M each. Last edited by nik1979; 08-17-2009 at 10:15 AM. |
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08-17-2009, 07:37 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Flushing, Michigan
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Quote:
I actually put the standard missile at 200 mm. (See the article I just published in JTAS.) The reason is that, if you're using the ship design system in GT:IW, the damage is 12d(10) when using the d-damage scale, or 6d x 20 (10) in the normal damage scale. This is twice the damage of the 100 mm. TL 9 HEAT round from Ultra-Tech, which suggests the missile is 200 mm. since damage seems to scale directly with warhead diameter. It's also a lot easier to scale up the warheads since there is a 100 mm. warhead in Ultra-Tech. 8 x mass and cost of a 100 mm. warhead for a 200 mm. warhead, and effects are either x2 or x2.8, depending on the type of warhead. If you look at missile weights in Spaceships, a 200 mm. missile is 250 lbs. and a 240 mm. warhead is 500 lbs., so 200 mm. is a better match for the .15 tons of the standard missile on that scale, too. Suffice that, for a 4e GURPS Traveller campaign, I've made the argument that the missiles are 200 mm. And Loren seemed happy to publish it that way. Interestingly, the missiles in Traveller are quite small, considering they're anti-ship weapons. I guess the idea is that you fire a lot of them, since lasers will probably get most of them, but it's like battleships fighting with AMRAAMs instead of Harpoons. :) Mark |
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08-18-2009, 01:39 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Thanks Mark,
hehehe, your making it hard to ignore that subscription. I've placed my order at e23 now. Any plans of making Mass Combat Stats for Traveller Ships? The change from 200mm actually doesn't change my calculations that much. After accumulating all this data and having a naval doctrine down pat, I'm surprised there was no CCG designed after that. Once you have the established doctrines and technological paths set, you can pretty much design an Abstract fleet action and naval Strategy Card Game by it. The CCG could possibly accommodate both fleet doctrines of Lost Fleet and Honorverse. Asset Cards for Ships, Captains, Elite Fighter Squadrons, Bases, Shipyards, and Locations. Action Cards for Special Fleet Maneuvers (Which need certain requirements), EW or ECM actions and drones, special attacks, traps, mines/pods, ambushes, random chance, etc. Faction Cards. Grants a special advantage to the player. Like bonuses over generic ship stats (the difference between faction Y and W EW, Accel, Attack Range, or special maneuvers) and with 3d6 resolutions for some elements (target number resolution so that its upward progression). I'm trying to build some default ship stats based on ISW's BTW, I've noticed ramming is not that hard given the factors of ship size and proximity explosions. Ramming a ship like the Indomitable with size +13 offsets much of the +15 contested skill advantage. If screening ships are able to pin point an enemy ship (augmenting the effective detection range of the launching ship to almost double): Scan-16(model-0) + Scan-24(model-9) can allow a missile to travel an 8 (w/c requires 9 rounds to max out accel) space vector towards a targeted ship. I've begging to notice the usefulness of "ships of the wall". Basically dreadnaughts with a 6 point defense laser slots per heavy turret or up to about 396 point defense slots. This means that Point Defense (PD) will be occurring at the ship's hex as part of the PD phase. Screening ships, will have a -4 (at the safest range of 12, or less at 2), +2 (accell), +13 (size) vs the repulsor-ed ship of +15 and other bonuses depending on the Penetration Aids for the Missiles or the EW/ECM abilities of the warship. High Explosive Proximity Kill Missiles like Nukes, makes the job easier for the missiles. |
08-18-2009, 07:51 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Quote:
Hangar Bay Volume = ((Craft Dtons * #Craft) * 2) + (#Craft * 1.5) So, the total number of dtons taken up is basically double the size of the craft to be carried. E.g., if you are going to carry 100 10dton fighters, you need 2150 dtons of hangar volume. Hangar Bay Mass = (#Craft * 1ton) + (#Craft * Craft tons) Yes, the hangar itself only has mass equal to the first part, but your maneuver drive (and whatever else) had better be rated to handle a loaded hangar.
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Daryen's Corner of the Interverse |
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08-18-2009, 11:10 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
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Re: GT ISW Ship Design System [FAQ and Problems]
Oh my bad, i thought the wording meant in addition. I was ok with the x3 use of space because I thought it had to factor in space between ships and paths for the crafts to move through. Still the x2 certainly helps
Thanks Daryen Reading up on the literature concerning EW Drones VE171 Spoofing and GT:GF 112 Jammer description is much like UT157 I think it would be just simpler to make targeting systems have a penalty and a reroll (for missile target acquisition). I was thinking -2 and -2 per additional EW would be good enough give ships enough staying power before taking on damage. If the targeting system fails, it hits the EW instead. If succeeds despite the EW, the best is that the EW still be expended but reduces the margin of success. Offesive and Defensive ECM, one has legs but only has enough energy for one burst use the other doesnt have legs but could do its job much longer (or through microwave energy transmission) I've just realized if the Ship combat system could be improved, one can run vehicle based campaigns. Such campaigns would make the Vehicle Design system an Encounter generator! and even if the PC's doctrine or resources would be not be enough, part of the adventure would be the ground side Intel Gathering to get a counter edge. |
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