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Old 11-05-2019, 03:08 AM   #1
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes

So a little bit a go I was to post a question about how skilled most Mages are because I'd gotten a pair of rules missed up: I thought that the -1 QAD enchanting takes per person present was actually a general penalty that applies to all ceremonial casting, which kind of begs the question on how those ceremonies where hundreds or maybe even thousands of ordinary Joe's are contributing energy, well yeah I think I got this rule from enchanting, anyone disagree? And should I run with it? From a meta-physics stand point it makes a bit more sense, but I'd probably use the Size and Speed/Range table to determine penalty, substituting Yards for people present.

The other error I noticed has to with how fast QAD enchanting happens, I thought it 10 energy per mage per hour, but it's actually a flat 100 energy per hour, looks like I got confused because the examples always talk about the mages only putting in 10 energy each for some weird reason, despite the fact that there would be commercial advantage in being able to contribute more energy. Again, should I run with this?

NB: This took a turn for the strange, I wanted to double check the sources of my confusion and I end up asking if I should keep using the modified rules.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:05 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes

You're correct in that enchantment is not identical to ceremonial magic. In fact, the -1 per assistant rule is not only just for enchantment, it's specific to Q&D enchantment alone, not S&S. (It's also -1 for anyone within 10 yards, assisting or not).

Enchantment also differs from ceremonial magic in that you can enchant alone, whereas you _must_ have assistants for ceremonial magic.

Q&D enchantment allows mages to contribute as much energy as they're able -- there's not a cap per mage, or in total.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic 17
A lone caster is limited to the energy provided by his FP, HP, and one Powerstone. But assistants can contribute their own FP and HP as described for ceremonial magic. Assistants may also use one Powerstone each
For that 100 energy limit, you're probably thinking of the rule for how long the enchantment takes -- the process takes 1 hour per 100 energy required to complete the enchantment. But that's not directly tied to the rate of energy input -- each mage only gets to contribute once, at the end of that 1+ hour period.

In the example with Tubbs and Hawthorne, they're repeating their Powerstone enchantment multiple times in one day, not supplying energy to the same enchantment process multiple times and resting during just one process. Powerstone enchantments stack to increase capacity, a rule detailed in that spell. The example cites 10 FP just as an assumption on the amount of energy they can contribute -- which isn't a bad rule of thumb assuming average stats.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:09 PM   #3
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes

10 is probably a good assumption for SAFE contribution. If you spend FP into the negative (can you even do that voluntarily?) you risk falling unconscious... and if you spend HP then that's going to create skill penalties, and if I recall right, those two were just on the cusp of the 15 skill required to enchant, so spending HP would put them below the threshold?

There is a perk to mitigate the "people are nearby" penalty for enchanting, and also a 'solitary ceremonial' enhancement for magery to allow spells outside the enchantment college to be done using ceremonial magic without people helping.

SC is pretty costly though, it's probably easy to just always have some minion or familiar around so that you can technically fulfill the requirements of not being alone, rather than buy Solitary Ceremonial.
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Old 11-06-2019, 05:13 AM   #4
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes

My guess is that they both spent 10 points because Powerstone costs 20 and the best way to recover and start the next process is to spend FP evenly.

If I understand the process correctly, any Enchant up to 100 energy takes 1 hour and you need to spend the required energy at the end of that hour. More than that and you need 1 hour per 100 energy of the enchant (round up) and then the caster and any assistant need to come up with the full amount of energy, which between the penalty for additional members, quickly makes it impossible, which is one of the reasons why you go Slow and (Almost) Sure
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:30 AM   #5
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes

I'm wondering about some kind of "I can do 10 energy per 6 minutes instead of 100 per 60" enhancement for Enchantment-Only Magery. I remember this scene in Saga of Tanya the Evil where there's this mage enchanting bullets during a plane flight and it seemed like the speed he was going at was way faster than 1/hour.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:14 AM   #6
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
You're correct in that enchantment is not identical to ceremonial magic. In fact, the -1 per assistant rule is not only just for enchantment, it's specific to Q&D enchantment alone, not S&S. (It's also -1 for anyone within 10 yards, assisting or not).

Enchantment also differs from ceremonial magic in that you can enchant alone, whereas you _must_ have assistants for ceremonial magic.
I think this raises a question: Is enchanting really ceremonial magic then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Q&D enchantment allows mages to contribute as much energy as they're able -- there's not a cap per mage, or in total.

For that 100 energy limit, you're probably thinking of the rule for how long the enchantment takes -- the process takes 1 hour per 100 energy required to complete the enchantment. But that's not directly tied to the rate of energy input -- each mage only gets to contribute once, at the end of that 1+ hour period.
Right about the time, but I should have phrased the version got stuck in my head better, all energy would still be expended at the end, just the way the potential is calculated is changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
In the example with Tubbs and Hawthorne, they're repeating their Powerstone enchantment multiple times in one day, not supplying energy to the same enchantment process multiple times and resting during just one process. Powerstone enchantments stack to increase capacity, a rule detailed in that spell. The example cites 10 FP just as an assumption on the amount of energy they can contribute -- which isn't a bad rule of thumb assuming average stats.
It's not just those examples, it's all the official math we're ever given for how much energy a Mage contributes, that is fixed at them only ever contributing 10 energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
10 is probably a good assumption for SAFE contribution. If you spend FP into the negative (can you even do that voluntarily?) you risk falling unconscious... and if you spend HP then that's going to create skill penalties, and if I recall right, those two were just on the cusp of the 15 skill required to enchant, so spending HP would put them below the threshold?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
My guess is that they both spent 10 points because Powerstone costs 20 and the best way to recover and start the next process is to spend FP evenly.
You can have FP higher then 10, and given that FP is the primary limit on a Mages power and income, it would be surprising if it was limited this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
There is a perk to mitigate the "people are nearby" penalty for enchanting, and also a 'solitary ceremonial' enhancement for magery to allow spells outside the enchantment college to be done using ceremonial magic without people helping.
Never heard of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
I'm wondering about some kind of "I can do 10 energy per 6 minutes instead of 100 per 60" enhancement for Enchantment-Only Magery. I remember this scene in Saga of Tanya the Evil where there's this mage enchanting bullets during a plane flight and it seemed like the speed he was going at was way faster than 1/hour.
That not GURPS
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