Rules you ignore/alter.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's a small bonus on top of the main reason you care about crits (no active defense). It's not like the extra effects of the roll are bad, they're just often irrelevant.

The thing is, your opponent having no Active Defense may be irrelevant.

Your opponent may be in a situation where no Active Defense is allowed, or at least, none that are available to them. You still roll on the same chart. =/

When someone rolls for an Active Defense, there's a chance they'll roll a Critical Success, causing your attack to count as a Critical Failure. There is a chance they'll defend normally. There is a chance they'll fail to defend. Finally, there is a chance they'll Critically Fail their defense, so that your normal attack is treated as a Critical Success at that point.* Which isn't much of a penalty, given the nature of the Critical Success chart.

We can never know - had you rolled a normal Success instead of a Critical Success - whether your opponent's Defense roll would have actually benefited them, made no difference, or even benefited you. It may seem like a nitpick, but think about how Critical Successes are handled in other situations.

Addressing something else that another person mentioned:

Originally Posted by Rupert

I think the best crit success/fail I've seen was when someone fumbled with a mace, and and got the "throw weapon" result. It came up as 1-yard forwards, and thus onto the guy they were aiming at anyway. The DX check to avoid it failed, the mace hit the guy on the skull, and as the thrower was a massively strong WM the result was about the same as if he'd got a normal hit (aside from having to retrieve his mace).

I've seen a few 'funny bone' hits and forced disarms, but they're not usually very exciting as most attacks in these games are powerful enough to make those results irrelevant.

That doesn't sound like the rules were properly applied. If you throw forward, shouldn't your original target be "off limits"? As in, the mace is thrown forward past your original target?

I mean, imagine if the situation were reversed. Maybe you don't even have to imagine; I've heard horror stories where the GM ignored the context of a Critical Success and maliciously applied the rules for Crits... or even the general rules of thumb. You know, like a Critical Success while pulling your punch resulting in extra, undesired damage.



*I make enough mistakes, just let me know if this is another of them and failing an Active Defense doesn't or rarely uses the Critical Success Table.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Otaku

That doesn't sound like the rules were properly applied. If you throw forward, shouldn't your original target be "off limits"? As in, the mace is thrown forward past your original target?

The rules say you throw it 1d yards in front or behind. 1 yard in front was where the target was. So, the attacker swings the mace down, intending to smack it down on his target. The mace slips in his hand, and he lands a weak blow (that's enough to finish his target anyway) as the mace flies out of his hand.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The rules say you throw it 1d yards in front or behind. 1 yard in front was where the target was. So, the attacker swings the mace down, intending to smack it down on his target. The mace slips in his hand, and he lands a weak blow (that's enough to finish his target anyway) as the mace flies out of his hand.

...which ignores the context of the Critical Miss Table. Maybe this is another thing I've gotten wrong about GURPS, but it sounds like the GM being generous to me. That or applying the letter of the RAW without adhering to the spirit of the RAW... or perhaps even the full letter of the RAW, given that the Critical Miss Chart is a tool to be understood in context of the larger Critical Failure rules.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the rules for attacking while not using your full strength, for when you need to attack something but don't want to risk injuring it beyond a certain point. I fairly certain something like that exists in GURPS... so imagine rolling a Critical Success while trying to use those rules, the GM making you roll on the Critical Success Table, and you getting a result that causes more harm to your target. Even though the entire point of a Critical Success is that you not only succeeded, but succeeded in an exceptional manner.

Again, maybe I am misunderstanding the situation. I went and read the result in the Critical Miss Table... but the Table isn't the full extent of the rules for Critical Failures. If it turns out you/your GM were handling it according to RAW Rupert... then I guess we found another rule I ignore or alter.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I have to say I'm intensely averse to using metagame mechanics to explain the lives of normal people. Having and spending cp are normally altogether non-diegetic.

I'm not sure why, real life is like the most likely place for the implausible to happen because it's often considered bad form in fiction.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The vast majority of characters in any realistic setting should not benefit from cinematic/supernatural abilities. If you want a realistic character to have access to exceptional luck (which is realistic, as there are people who are demonstrably more lucky than others), give them Luck or Serendipity.

I don't recall Impulse Buys being an ability. And you're okay with full Serendipity but not a one use version?

Originally Posted by Plane

I'm not sure that's even supposed to be an option for NPCs. "Bonus CP" for "good roleplaying" that can be spent on ANYTHING probably just isn't realistic, it's inherently metagaming to make things more fun and chaotic.

NPCs also don't have to make job rolls or really any roll the GM doesn't feel like making.

Originally Posted by TGLS

I don't know. Job rolls are fairly harsh if you assume natural 18 is Lost Job. There's about a 1/3 chance of holding a job for 20 years and about a 1/9 chance of holding a job for 40.

That honestly seems optimistic and I didn't assume 18 was a job loss.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I didn't assume 18 was a job loss.

There are many jobs where "LJ" appears in the column for Crit Fails and that stands for "Lose Job".

[Alden Loveshade]

I don't remember if these options are in this thread or not (and I'm too lazy to look). But I think these GURPS money options are quite useful, especially for PCs who have above average wealth:

http://www.mygurps.com/pmwiki.php?n=Main.GURPSMoney

[Plane]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I didn't assume 18 was a job loss.

It's not, B516 minimum requirement is "no pay for the month", otherwise with normal failures you reduce income by MoF*10%...

...which resembles the rule of MoF10 = crit in a way

...and Cole's "Last Gasp" suggestion of MoS 10 = attack costss no AP like a crit success seems like an inversion of these.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

There are many jobs where "LJ" appears in the column for Crit Fails and that stands for "Lose Job".

which book has custom crit fail tables for different jobs? that sounds great

I would love a book full of nothing but extra crit fail tables. Thaumatology helped with magic but I could definitely go for some more per-college magic crit fail tables.

Maybe something like 6 crit fail taables per college so you can start off rolling 1d to see which of them you use.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I'm not sure why, real life is like the most likely place for the implausible to happen because it's often considered bad form in fiction.

I'm not sure how implausible enters into it. It's not even anything to do with improbable.

What it is, is hanging the causality of simulation results on elements that are squarely outside the simulation.

Character points don't represent anything that exists in the real world or most fictional ones (even in the rapidly-proliferating gamey litRPG sphere usually, they run more to levels and/or dedicated point pools than full-range pointbuy currency). The map is the territory for them: a mechanism for building and advancing game characters in a game-oriented manner. The intersection between character points and regular NPCs doing jobs has no reason to exist.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm not sure how implausible enters into it. It's not even anything to do with improbable.

What it is, is hanging the causality of simulation results on elements that are squarely outside the simulation.

Character points don't represent anything that exists in the real world or most fictional ones (even in the rapidly-proliferating gamey litRPG sphere usually, they run more to levels and/or dedicated point pools than full-range pointbuy currency). The map is the territory for them: a mechanism for building and advancing game characters in a game-oriented manner. The intersection between character points and regular NPCs doing jobs has no reason to exist.

Abstract gaming concepts are inspired by things in reality and fiction... and fiction is often inspired by reality. Even if it simply amounts to translating the historical, improbable successes into a package that will produce similar results in GURPS, it seems like a non-issue to me.

[AlexanderHowl]

Luck and Serendipity are realistic traits because there are people who are demonstrably more lucky than others. We see evidence of such traits in the lives of identical twins which, despite possessing identical genetics and identical environments, usually have divergent paths starting in adolescence. One twin starts getting lucky breaks that the other twin does not, resulting in divergent life paths.

Conversely, we do not see anything that seems like Impulse Buys, as people seem to rarely have lucky breaks without corresponding unlucky events unless they are naturally lucky or naturally unlucky. People who are naturally lucky tend to stay lucky while people who are naturally unlucky tend to stay unlucky. People can become lucky though, which would be best represented by them purchasing Luck or Serendipity, rather than spending points on Impulse Buys.

For example, the majority of people who win the lottery seem to end up regretting it as their good luck starts to be balanced by increased bad luck. Bankruptcies, divorces, kidnappings, murders, etc. seem to follow lottery winners as probably regresses to the mean. Impulse Buys are really incapable of representing such phenomena, but the standard rules are capable of doing so. After all, a GM could give a PC Independent Income 5 and Filthy Rich and balance it with a Secret Enemy worth -45 CP (representing an unknown groups of criminals seeking to harm the PC for fun and profit) and Unluckiness.