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Old 05-06-2020, 02:25 PM   #1
Kitzy
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

How exactly does FP cost for Psionics work? Regarding the Psionic power book.

Do abilities only use FP when it's listed they do/under certain circumstances?

For example, if I want to use PK shield or levitation is that free of charge, and if not then when do they use FP?

And, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, if I fail my levitation check in a minute to stay afloat my next roll to activate it again has a -1, then if I fail it again -2, etc etc? Till I succeed, at with point it remains at the - modifier I last failed it at?

IE: If I fail 2 times but then succeed, my next roll has -2, if I then fail again I have a -3.

The same goes to active it in the first place, correct?

Till 5 minutes pass? Or till I rest for 5 minutes?

Also, for the STR without HP perk you can take. Is that not suppose to give you HP? Because within gurps workspace it still does, or does that stand for/mean something else ?

Does levitation require you to not do anything else but that, or can you still shoot a gun?

Does PK shield work against bullets?

Last edited by Kitzy; 05-06-2020 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 05-06-2020, 04:30 PM   #2
mburr0003
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Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitzy View Post
Do abilities only use FP when it's listed they do/under certain circumstances?
Correct. This, and all further answers, presume by "Psionic power book" you mean GURPS Psionic Powers and not GURPS Psionic Campaigns or GURPS Psis.

Quote:
For example, if I want to use PK shield or levitation is that free of charge, and if not then when do they use FP?
Correct. They cost 2 FP if you use a Technique, such as Rapid Launch for Levitation or Expansion for PK Shield.

Quote:
And, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, if I fail my levitation check in a minute to stay afloat my next roll to activate it again has a -1, then if I fail it again -2, etc etc? Till I succeed, at with point it remains at the - modifier I last failed it at?
Correct, until 5 minutes of non-use have passed (and no attempts to use), at which point all penalties for successive attempts are removed.

Also note, every attempt to reactivate after a failure costs 1FP until 5 minutes of non-use and no attempts to use have passed.

Quote:
IE: If I fail 2 times but then succeed, my next roll has -2, if I then fail again I have a -3.

The same goes to active it in the first place, correct?

Till 5 minutes pass? Or till I rest for 5 minutes?
Correct. And by rest, all it means is "do not use or attempt to activate". You could be running, while fighting off ninjas, and singing an opera, which is the opposite of resting...

Quote:
Also, for the STR without HP perk you can take. Is that not suppose to give you HP? Because within gurps workspace it still does, or does that stand for/mean something else ?
Page number? Or the actual name of the Perk?

Quote:
Does levitation require you to not do anything else but that, or can you still shoot a gun?
Every activation requires a Concentrate Maneuver, otherwise it's exactly like walking/running. So you can certainly take Attack Maneuvers to fire a gun and take a Step, or All-Out Attack to fire and move forward up to 1/2 Move, etc.
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Old 05-06-2020, 04:56 PM   #3
smurf
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

RAW: B354 refers to Hiking on B351. Instead of Hiking skill substitute it for the skill used for Flying. Long distance use Hiking, for moving really fast ie Running then use the Rules on B354. Encumbrance will affect fatigue loss.

Oh and remember speed. Without protective eye where you may not be able to see because you are trying to keep your eyes closed. And at sublime speeds breathing may be difficult.

Last edited by smurf; 05-06-2020 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 05-06-2020, 05:23 PM   #4
Kitzy
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf View Post
RAW: B354 refers to Hiking on B351. Instead of Hiking skill substitute it for the skill used for Flying. Long distance use Hiking, for moving really fast ie Running then use the Rules on B354. Encumbrance will affect fatigue loss.

Oh and remember speed. Without protective eye where you may not be able to see because you are trying to keep your eyes closed. And at sublime speeds breathing may be difficult.
Thanks, but that does not really answer my questions ?

Last edited by Kitzy; 05-06-2020 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:25 PM   #5
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

In general, the abilities in Psi Powers do not cost FP to use. See the "Statistics" block, where PK shows the under-the-hood construction of the abilities. If you don't see Costs Fatigue (or Costs FP), then the ability doesn't cost FP. And I didn't see that Limitation, nor is it part of the Power Modifiers (a way to group modifiers so they can easily be applied to all abilities of a given power to help support the theme).

There are a lot of ways to burn FP even though the base abilities don't often cost FP. Psi Techniques (a sort of Extra Effort) costs 2 FP, Extra Effort costs 2 FP, repeated attempts cost an FP, and so on.
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Old 05-07-2020, 02:49 AM   #6
Crystalline_Entity
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: England
Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

I agree with Anaraxes here, unless the underlying build includes "Costs FP" it doesn't cost fatigue points. The only exceptions I think are using a Psi Technique etc, or where the underlying advantage costs FP (e.g. Warp).
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Old 05-07-2020, 05:28 AM   #7
Kitzy
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
In general, the abilities in Psi Powers do not cost FP to use. See the "Statistics" block, where PK shows the under-the-hood construction of the abilities. If you don't see Costs Fatigue (or Costs FP), then the ability doesn't cost FP. And I didn't see that Limitation, nor is it part of the Power Modifiers (a way to group modifiers so they can easily be applied to all abilities of a given power to help support the theme).

There are a lot of ways to burn FP even though the base abilities don't often cost FP. Psi Techniques (a sort of Extra Effort) costs 2 FP, Extra Effort costs 2 FP, repeated attempts cost an FP, and so on.
Alright, thanks.

Can TK shield stop bullets?

Also, this is what I was referring too.

Multiple Feats: -1 for every other ability in the same power
being used already. The exceptions are the few abilities specifically
noted as being “passive,” which neither receive nor cause
a penalty for multiple feats. Note that this penalty is within a
single power; your use of Pyrokinesis will never cause a penalty
to your Telereceive skill.

Repeated Attempts: If a skill roll is failed, any attempt to try
the same feat on the same (or an identical) subject is at a
cumulative -1 and the attempt has an additional flat cost of 1
FP. The definition of “identical subjects” never includes sapient
beings. If two thugs are each holding a .45 pistol, the pistols are
identical subjects while the thugs are not. Should a repeated
attempt be successful, later attempts to do the same thing no
longer have a FP cost, but the skill penalty that was already in
place remains. All penalties can be removed by waiting five
minutes.

Is there a image out there somewhere showing your probability of crit fail/success and overall change of succeeding for gurps4 depending on skill level?

Last edited by Kitzy; 05-07-2020 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 05-07-2020, 06:17 AM   #8
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

PK Shield does stop bullets if it's up. Or slows them down a bit, anyway. The ability is built on Damage Reduction, limited to physical effects, so it doesn't affect energy attacks like lasers or fire or electricity. But for bullets, it does what DR normally does -- subtracts from damage. (Everything in Psi Powers is built with the existing rules in Basic and Powers, so all that rules will still apply. It's not a completely separate system.)

The ability does have that activation roll, and the shield isn't Always On, so you'd at least need to be aware that you were under attack. You wouldn't need ETS to be able to see every individual bullet in combat (TK Bullet throws at "bullet-like speeds", and it's specifically noted as defended against). But the ability does have an activation roll, so a GM might fairly rule that you weren't aware of that distant hidden sniper to even suspect you might want to raise your PK Shield, and in such cases the character doesn't get that roll to activate. (Reverse-engineering the stats block looks to me like the ability would technically be active for a minute after the first activation roll, as with the hailstorm example. There's no mention of a 1-second duration, so I'm not sure where the "roll each time" comes from, other than it adds a lot more interest to the fights and makes the ability more like an Active Defense.)

Multiple attempts is a skill penalty for having more than one ability going at the same time. Activating an ability is usually "active", meaning that it takes a Maneuver (like Concentrate) to make something happen. If that effect persists, just keeping it going is a bit of a distraction to getting anything else going. (Compare to the "spell on" penalty in Basic magic.) It's a penalty to the ability activation roll, but not an FP cost.

Repeated attempts applies if you've already tried to activate an ability and it failed. You can "try harder" to roll again next turn, but "harder" costs you an extra FP, as well as the -1 to the skill roll. (See "Repeated Attempts" on B348.) The idea here is to emulate that common fictional effort when they characters have to dramatically push to get something important done when normally it just happens. Even if the ability doesn't normally cost FP at all, the repeat of a failed attempt does cost 1 FP.
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Old 05-07-2020, 06:21 AM   #9
Kitzy
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
PK Shield does stop bullets if it's up. Or slows them down a bit, anyway. The ability is built on Damage Reduction, limited to physical effects, so it doesn't affect energy attacks like lasers or fire or electricity. But for bullets, it does what DR normally does -- subtracts from damage. (Everything in Psi Powers is built with the existing rules in Basic and Powers, so all that rules will still apply. It's not a completely separate system.)

The ability does have that activation roll, and the shield isn't Always On, so you'd at least need to be aware that you were under attack. You wouldn't need ETS to be able to see every individual bullet in combat (TK Bullet throws at "bullet-like speeds", and it's specifically noted as defended against). But the ability does have an activation roll, so a GM might fairly rule that you weren't aware of that distant hidden sniper to even suspect you might want to raise your PK Shield, and in such cases the character doesn't get that roll to activate. (Reverse-engineering the stats block looks to me like the ability would technically be active for a minute after the first activation roll, as with the hailstorm example. There's no mention of a 1-second duration, so I'm not sure where the "roll each time" comes from, other than it adds a lot more interest to the fights and makes the ability more like an Active Defense.)

Multiple attempts is a skill penalty for having more than one ability going at the same time. Activating an ability is usually "active", meaning that it takes a Maneuver (like Concentrate) to make something happen. If that effect persists, just keeping it going is a bit of a distraction to getting anything else going. (Compare to the "spell on" penalty in Basic magic.) It's a penalty to the ability activation roll, but not an FP cost.

Repeated attempts applies if you've already tried to activate an ability and it failed. You can "try harder" to roll again next turn, but "harder" costs you an extra FP, as well as the -1 to the skill roll. (See "Repeated Attempts" on B348.) The idea here is to emulate that common fictional effort when they characters have to dramatically push to get something important done when normally it just happens. Even if the ability doesn't normally cost FP at all, the repeat of a failed attempt does cost 1 FP.
Alright, thanks.

Does Failing TK shield and re trying it when shot again count has "Try harder?"

And what about levitation, the 1 minute each roll to stay a float? If you fail that, or fail that multiple times, is that the same story?
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Old 05-07-2020, 08:40 AM   #10
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Gurps, question about FP cost for Psionics

The Repeated Attempts paragraph in Basic breaks things down into four categories for repetition of the same task, and leaves it to the GM and common sense to decide which is which.
  • Not repeatable (defuse the ticking bomb, jump over a crevasse) You failed, the timer got to zero, the bomb blew up. Even if you survive, the bomb doesn't.
  • Easily retryable (pick a lock, catch a fish, analyze a poison) Retries here mostly cost just time.
  • Unknown outcome until it's too late (translate a treasure map, order in a French restaurant)
  • Non-crippling consequences (climb a wall - falling causes damage, impress a savage - which might provoke a fight if you fail, or just is inherently dangerous because it's one of those trading blows customs, firewalking, etc)
Retries are allowed after a "reasonable" amount of time has passed (assuming your failure hasn't killed you or otherwise rendered you unable to try again), "reasonable" depending on the circumstances, often defined in the individual skills. Combat rolls are one specific example of where there's no special delay or penalty involved, as well as a case where retry on the same roll isn't possible.

So, I'd treat a failure on the PK Shield roll in the "not repeatable" category, like any active defense. No reroll allowed, but you can try again for the next attack at no penalty. The "next attack" isn't the same situation. (Rerolls in this context aren't just a matter of using the same skill twice in a row, but trying again on the same problem in the same circumstances.)

For levitation, I'd let you Concentrate again next turn as you fall after your initial failure, probably throwing in that -3 penalty for distractions to your concentration along with the -1 for the repeated attempt to attempt the same thing, stopping yourself if that roll succeeds. You'll have fallen about 5 meters during that time, though, so it's bad news if you were skimming over the lava pit, but not all that hazardous if you jumped out of a plane at 10,000 feet.

If you were doing TK-assisted lockpicking, I'd let you keep trying every minute (the usual lockpicking time required) with the accumulating -1 penalty; after ten or twenty minutes of dedicated work, you'll figure out that you just can't puzzle this one out, as your penalty on this lock has gotten up to -10 or -20. (If you don't have an effective skill of at least 3, you don't even get to roll just in hopes for a crit success. See B345.) In the try-to-exhaustion case, I'd probably rule that the lock is just beyond you, and no more success is ever possible unless something significant changes (you take a master class on Lockpicking, acquire the schematics for that lock design, general adventuring raises your DX, etc).

Go with what makes sense for the particular situation. The one thing that the rule isn't meant to allow is "my player just keeps rolling until they get lucky with zero time elapsed".
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