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Old 01-07-2015, 03:49 PM   #1
Otaku
 
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Default [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes, Enhanced Defences, ETS

Last Week: Claws; Spines; Strikers; Teeth
Next Week: Hiatus! ([Basic] Advantages by Category)
Next Discussion: Common Sense, Intuition

A brief foreword; I've been struggling to keep up before the holidays were in full swing, and even after them I'm rushing to make these threads and I don't want to do a bad job. I am at the point where I realize now that I should have planned out what to review (as far as I could) ahead of time so that I knew what was going to overlap with what, and what might be better to delay because even if I am covering it on its own, it will make more sense to discuss after something that (with my more or less alphabetical order) is being discussed later. I also am wondering if I should temporarily suspend this series to do some threads discussing the Attributes and possibly a few other traits that are usually quite relevant to these discussions, but which I end up having to either take time and space to sort-of cover over and over again or gloss over and hope it doesn't cause confusion.

Today we are looking at Combat Reflexes [15] (p. B43). A character possessing this trait enjoys both improved reaction time and is very hard to surprise. The list of benefits is extensive:
  • +1 to all Active Defenses
  • +1 to all Fast-Draw Skills
  • +2 to Fright Checks
  • Immune to "freezing" in a surprise situation
  • +6 on IQ rolls to wake up or recover from surprise or mental "stun"
  • +1 (or +2 if you are the leader) on initiative rolls to avoid a surprise attack.

This Advantage is built into Enhanced Time Sense and characters are not allowed to take both. If you break down the components of Combat Reflexes, they are clearly worth a lot more than the Advantage itself. Fortunately we have a Kromm Quote to help explain that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
To be fair, I know as a fact that in GURPS, First Edition, advantages were indeed priced for desired rarity in the game, not for their utility. I know this because the designer told me! Combat Reflexes is far more useful than most 15-point traits and many traits worth quite a bit more, but it's priced cheaply because it's common in adventure fiction and not meant to be rare. Warp costs more mostly because it's an outré superpower, and just about always rare when it's innate rather than technological.
I've been trying not to instantly force the direction of discussion "my way" in these threads ("try", not "succeed"), but I'm going to ask a question/make a comment that definitely reflects my own biases and confusion. Given the direction GURPS has gone with since 1st Edition, I have to question the logic of keeping it intentionally under priced. It just seems like it would be better to explain some of the crunch and then use it as an example of an Advantage commonly discounted to better reflect adventure fiction and keep players alive. Discounting it "up front" without making that clear at the very least risks a GM assuming the trait is neutral and discounting it even further (hey, some of us are really bad GMs XD). GURPS is just so interconnected that I would think this would create issues. Perhaps a more realistic alternative is that Afflictions based on Combat Reflexes (granting and/or removing it)... aren't they going to also be disproportionately priced?

So... how has Combat Reflexes been working for you or those you've gamed with? What are your thoughts on its price?

I'll take a moment to actually answer this myself because of something "weird" that happened in my group (that of was a bunch of teens using 3e rules). At first, everyone took Combat Reflexes; we all knew it was good and under priced. The thing is, at least for me, eventually I stopped taking it. Not a huge surprise when running someone not really meant for the front lines, but even many of those, I had to make hard decisions and it was often a case where Combat Reflexes (available after character creation but expensive) was better to hold off on than a point in an Attribute, an inborn Advantage not available later or what was actually demonstrated by another warrior in the group... High Pain Threshold.

Addendum: Perhaps helping to prove my concerns valid, while this post is already lengthy... that's by normal standards, and discussing Combat Reflexes really seems like it should include two other traits: Enhanced Defenses and Enhanced Time Sense.

Enhanced Defenses [variable] (p. B51) is a tool for representing a character with defenses (Block, Dodge or Parry) that are better than they "should be" according to how GURPS calculates such things. Whether due to careful observation of your foe, focusing your Chi or "anything else that fits your background" you are better at either Blocking, Dodging or Parrying (possibly more than one). Enhanced Block [5] grants a +1 to Block with a single kind of block Defense, Enhanced Dodge [15] grants +1 to your Dodge score and Enhanced Parry [5 or 10] grants the plus one to your bare hands or anyone Melee Weapon Skill for the lower price, for all parries at the higher price. The official description indicates that this is a cinematic "mental" trait that (with GM permission) can be purchased more than once (the text suggests allowing no more than three levels).

Enhanced Time Sense [45] (p. B52) is an exotic, mental trait that includes all the benefits of Combat Reflexes, but isn't technically combat focused; it represents the capacity to process information at superhuman levels. Your Basic Speed doesn't change, but in a situation where order of action matters (like combat), you'll get your "turn" before anyone lacking Enhanced Time Sense. If more than one character has this Advantage, all possessing it go before everyone else (and the usual factors determine who acts first among them). It also includes a built in "contract" with the GM stating he won't rush you needlessly to make your mind up about things. This is of varying use; some GMs are unlikely to do that anyway and if it is something that happens so fast characters without Enhanced Time Sense don't get to react at all, the GM can still ask you for a quick response. Also remember that you are not moving faster; an action that takes a second still takes a second, it is just that since you think more quickly, you might begin that action a little sooner (re: your turn order comes up sooner).

Please feel free to again share your thoughts on how these are priced and how useful they seem to be, especially since I added them in late.
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Last edited by Otaku; 01-28-2017 at 04:15 AM. Reason: Linked to next Advantage, closely related side discussion
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

On the comparison between CR and HPT which is implicit in your last sentence, I say this: tolerance of pain is worth 10 points, but what HPT actually gives you is the ability to ignore most non-crippling injury, and it too is (less demonstrably) underpriced.

As for CR's underpricing, I think it's wrong. Most people, upon hearing gunfire, will be shocked, frightened and/or freeze: this is called mental stun. Most people, upon playing GURPS, don't want that to happen to their characters. Just because this is true doesn't mean that CR should be underpriced. Give CR a price of 15/X, where it costs 15 in a game where all the PCs have ice in their veins, and a fair price in a realistic campaign.
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

What I do is bake in the +1 to Active Defenses into all characters, leave Combat Reflexes' other effects the same, then reduce the price to [5]. This way it's even cheaper for those whose concepts it is central to and everyone gets the primary "game is less lethal" benefit.

I have opinions on some other 15-point Advantages and why they should cost 5 or 10 instead, but I'll save those for when their threads come up.
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

Part of the problem is that, while combat reflexes are probably underpriced, most of the other enhanced defenses are overpriced. GURPS 4e is very heavily weighted towards 'pick one skill. Raise it through the roof' as an optimal combat strategy.
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

Combat Reflex are also lower prices because it meant be learnable in a reasonable amount of time by those that don't start plat with it.
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Old 01-07-2015, 07:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
Combat Reflex are also lower prices because it meant be learnable in a reasonable amount of time by those that don't start plat with it.
Yes. Combat Reflexes is an excellent example of the kind of advantage that many rookie character concepts can and should acquire in play
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

Otaku: If you wanted to take a break from this series to discuss things that you could link to in future posts about advantages, I think you should.


Combat Reflexes is Combat Reflexes. I played a character where my job was 100% out of combat. Once combat started, I ran away as fast as possible and cowered in the corner. Even then, I still took this even though the active defense portion would not be used much.

In a game where I was the GM, I just gave it to everyone for free so that it wouldn't be such a feel bad having to spend the mandatory 15.
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Old 01-07-2015, 10:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overheat View Post
In a game where I was the GM, I just gave it to everyone for free so that it wouldn't be such a feel bad having to spend the mandatory 15.
This is a great point. I think GMs should thinking this:

"If the PCs suddenly come under fire walking down the street at night, am I interested in the party having a member who says 'I yelp, then as soon as I recover from the mental stun, I dive under the nearest car' or 'I freeze. I'm wearing dark clothes, right? Maybe they won't notice me.' If not, I should give everyone Combat Reflexes for free."
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Old 01-07-2015, 10:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

First, I agree that it's a bargain, the second-best* in the game. It's way more important than High Pain Threshold, in my experience, which is considerable.

That said, I don't think it's broken. It suits too many adventurer concepts to be out-of-reach, pricewise. Furthermore, as has been noted, it suits most experienced adventurers, whatever they were as rookies, and I've seen the purchase of it play a dramatic part of character development.

Looked at in terms of its constituents, it seems cheap, but looked at as part of the 15pt-Club, it's about right, as a high-mileage, character-defining trait like Empathy, Intution, and Luck variants. I've actually run several low-combat campaigns where Empathy and Intuition were more useful.

*The first-best bargain in the game is a 5-per-level custom talent. The half-dozen skills that your character concept requires you to be good at, all at proficient levels to start. It's the main reason I generally prefer to start most campaigns on 100 points or less. Even with a 50pt character you can easily hit skill 14-16 with defining skills, say Cowboy Talent for +4 to Animal Handling, Guns, Lasso, Riding, Wrestling, and Profession: Cowboy, a skill that provides much the same benefits as Soldier for a cowboy on the trail. Oh, and +4 to reactions from the ranchers who might hire you.
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#26): Combat Reflexes

I don't like the cost disparity. I eliminate Combat Reflexes, and replace it with something called Combat Vet. People can buy Enhanced Defenses, Fearlessness, or extra levels of Fast Draw if they wish. My view is if you want characters to be more survivable in a certain campaign, either straight up give them that extra survivability, or give them extra points.


Combat Vet [5]
+6 on IQ rolls to wake up or recover from surprise or mental "stun"
+1 (or +2 if you are the leader) on initiative rolls to avoid a surprise attack.
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