09-05-2014, 12:11 PM | #51 | |
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Re: Based on reading, NOT personal experience --
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09-05-2014, 12:34 PM | #52 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Based on reading, NOT personal experience --
Sure, but in a realistic campaign, any quality bonus for Clothing is likely to be subject to similar restrictions as that for Armour, i.e. it is designed for a particular wearer and if you aren't built exactly the same, it won't necessarily have the same Expert Tailoring bonuses for you and may even give a penalty.
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09-05-2014, 12:42 PM | #53 | |||
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Re: Concealed Carry (CCW), Undercover Holsters, Holdout, IWB and real-world models
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The description for Observation even makes a point to distinguish it from Search in that you use Observation from a distance, but Search for a hands-on search. Quote:
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Then what kind of 'concealed or tactically significant details' does Observation give you about a group of people? If it can't tell you which members of a crowd are armed, what good is it for monitoring a group of people for potential dangers to your principal?
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09-05-2014, 01:01 PM | #54 | |||
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Concealed Carry (CCW), Undercover Holsters, Holdout, IWB and real-world models
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Who of them is the the officer (despite everyone using identical chevrons and nobody saluting another outside tents). Are they communicating using military signs, or ad-hoc gestures? If they're identified as military openly, are they conscripts or contract soldiers? If they're guerrillas, do they carry their weapons and other gear as if they're Little Green Men or as actual local volunteers? If they're not LGM, are they hired from the local stock of criminals and addicts? Coerced through some sort of threat (usually to relatives)? 'Tourists' hired across the border? Ex-military who got re-hired, but are nonetheless somewhat rusty by now? If they're from across the border, are they Russian Kadyrians, Russian Russians, or Russian Russians pretending to be Kadyrians to benefit from the intimidation factor? Are they armed with Cold War AK-47's that you could find all across the world, or the newly AK-100+'s that are hard to find outside RF? Is their camouflage off-the-shelf, or optimised specifically for the more common terrain colours of Donbas? That sort of thing. |
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09-05-2014, 09:05 PM | #55 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Concealed Carry (CCW), Undercover Holsters, Holdout, IWB and real-world models
In a slightly cinematic campaign I'd also allow Body Language to spot people that hold themselves like they are armed.
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09-06-2014, 03:34 PM | #56 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Concealed Carry (CCW), Undercover Holsters, Holdout, IWB and real-world models
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I'd often use it as a Complementary Skill for Observation, when used by security personell to note which members of a crowd pose a potential threat to their principal.
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09-06-2014, 07:29 PM | #57 | |||
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Re: Concealed Carry (CCW), Undercover Holsters, Holdout, IWB and real-world models
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If it wasn't, security personell wouldn't bother to physically pat people down. Quote:
What tactical or concealed details does the use of the Observation skill on a crowd of people within range of the US President reveal to a Secret Service agent? If it doesn't note weapons under coats, Observation isn't very useful to bodyguards and I've been using it wrong in my campaigns. That being said, clearly a one-second scan with Observation ought not be remotely as likely to find a concealed weapon as a pat-down using Search.
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09-06-2014, 07:30 PM | #58 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Observation vs. Holdout
I'd be inclined to say that normal use of the Observation skill took one minute and revealed hidden details on an unmodified skill roll. If you try to find a weapon or other thing hidden with Holdout, it's an unmodified Quick Contest.
A normal success or victory in the QC would, however, usually just reveal that the target is hiding some object, the general type (handgun, knife, wallet, etc.) of which you can discern, but not details such as the specific model or even what kind of handgun, on a specific location of his body. Success by 5+ would allow you to effectively see the item/weapon and reconstruct exactly the way it was hidden and how it could be accessed. 'Combat' use of Observation, with a Concentrate manueuver that takes one second, would then effectively be Instant use of Observation, for a -10 to skill, but that would usually be counteracted by the +10 bonus for spotting things in plain sight. I'd allow Taking Extra Time for that kind of Observation, up to +5 for 32 seconds, but note that this kind of 'combat' Observation is inherently giving less detail than a fuller 'non-combat' scan, with a base time of 1 minute. I'd say that you could use 'combat' Observation to roll unmodified to spot who is wearing clothing that would suggest that he might be able to use Holdout to conceal weapons, but actually spotting concealed weapons would be at a minimum -5 penalty. Thus, you'd rarely see items hidden with Holdout, since they'd generally be behind one layer or more of clothing, which means that you wouldn't get the full +10 to spot them and you'd also have to win a Quick Contest. I'd probably say that the mere fact that someone actively tried to hide something under their clothing imposed at mininum a -5 penalty to your Observation in the Quick Contest against his Holdout, assuming that the clothing covered it at all. That means you'd be at Observation-5 against IQ-5 against anyone untrained in Holdout, modified for clothing. Furthermore, I'd give even less specific information for a success on this roll than for a success at 'non-combat' Observation which takes a full minute. You'd just know that there appears to be something hidden in that general area of his body. Success by 5+ would give the same information as a regular success with 'non-combat' Observation and success by 10+ would give the same as success by 5+ gave with one-minute scans. This means that someone with Observation at 15 can fairly reliably (effective skill 12 against effective skill 5) spot whether untrained people are carrying something concealed with a four second scan for each person, but it's extremely difficult for them to find weapons carried by people with Holdout skill unless they take a full minute to study the way the people change position, move and carry themselves. Too harsh?
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09-07-2014, 07:43 AM | #59 | |
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Re: Concealed Carry (CCW), Undercover Holsters, Holdout, IWB and real-world models
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09-07-2014, 12:13 PM | #60 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Concealed Carry (CCW), Undercover Holsters, Holdout, IWB and real-world models
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In any case, I'd not use a Per-based check with a bonus for Acute Vision for analysing speech patterns. At best, IQ-based Observation and more probably require a roll against Intelligence Analysis (with Linguistics as a Complementary Skill, if possessed) to get such detail. As for spotting that he's wearing contact lenses, how on Earth do you spot an item hidden at Holdout +4, but not even allow a check to spot the printing of a handgun hidden at Holdout -2?
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Tags |
ccw, equipment, high-tech, holdout, tactical shooting |
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