GURPS Magic: perm spells that should be instant

[Anthony]

Since this came up in another thread, I thought I'd open a thread about which spells in GURPS Magic are permanent and should be instant. The following is a complete list of permanent non-enchantments, color coded for why they should probably be instant (feel free to dispute particular points here. In particular, there is an argument for making certain creations so they are automatically dispelled if separated from the original form, rather than instant).

• Red: this spell does damage or has a damage-like effect.
• Orange: this spell destroys material, in a way that is complex or nonsensical to reverse.
• Green: this spell is a healing effect.
• Purple: this spell creates or alters something that is easily incorporated in other objects, with potentially very complex effects if it is removed.
• Blue: this power introduces a change of state that has no logical duration.
• Black: I see no reason to change the duration of this spell.

Age
Boil Water
Charge Powerstone
Clean
Cleansing
Condense Steam
Control Illusion
Control Zombie
Copy
Create Acid
Create Air
Create Earth
Create Elemental (creates a magical creature; arguably should use creature rules rather than permanent spell rules)
Create Food
Create Fuel
Create Ice
Create Plant
Create Spring (the water it creates, however, should be Instant)
Create Water
Cure Radiation
Decay
Dehydrate
Destroy Water
Disintegrate
Dispel Magic
Distill
Drain Magery
Drain Mana (specially illogical, since it's actually internally inconsistent: permanent spells are suspended in no mana zones, so this spell suspends itself...)
Earth to Air
Earth to Stone
Earth to Water
Enslave
Essential Acid
Essential Air
Essential Earth
Essential Food
Essential Fuel
Essential Water
Essential Wood
Exchange Bodies
Extinguish Fire
Extinguish Radiation
Final Rest
Flesh to Ice
Flesh to Stone
Foul Water
Freeze
Frostbite
Great Geas
Great Healing
Heal Plant
Ice Slick
Icy Touch
Inspired Creation
Instant Regeneration
Instant Restoration
Lend Energy
Lend Spell
Lesser Geas
Major Healing
Mass Zombie (creates a magical creature; arguably should use creature rules rather than permanent spell rules)
Mature
Melt Ice
Minor Healing
Neutralize Poison
Oath
Partial Petrifaction
Permanent Forgetfulness
Permanent Madness
Pestilence
Poison Food
Prepare Game
Purify Air
Purify Earth
Purify Food
Purify Water
Rebuild
Rejuvenate Plant
Remove Aura
Remove Enchantment (yes, it's an enchantment; should still be inst).
Repair
Restoration
Restore Mana
Restore Memory
Resurrection
Season (could be an illusion)
Share Vitality
Soul Jar
Steal Energy
Steal Spell
Steal Vitality
Steal Youth
Stone to Earth
Stone to Flesh
Stop Bleeding
Stop Paralysis
Strike Barren
Water to Wine
Weaken
Wither Limb
Wither Plant
Zombie (creates a magical creature; arguably should use creature rules rather than permanent spell rules)

[Polydamas]

I don't have time to compare them, but another list is here.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

I don't have time to compare them, but another list is here.

While I can imagine there being another list, that one is a list of suggested skills for action heroes...

[Polydamas]

Fixed link. If its still wrong, just google "unofficial GURPS Magic errata."

[Saabre]

I created my own list of spells whose duration needed to be changed. I'm glad you started this thread however as I'd missed a few.

Here are the spells that you've listed that I feel differently.

These spells don't have a duration listed, as such I would assume that the duration implied is already instaneous, though I suppose stating such never hurts:
Charge Powerstone
Cleansing
Create Elemental
Decay
Foul Water
Great Healing
Lend Energy
Major Healing
Minor Healing
Poison Food
Purify Food
Stop Paralysis


These spells I actually agree with the permanent duration as listed on the spell:
Create Spring (I don't have a problem with this one as permanent, the water itself is not mentioned as being enchanted just the spring)
Enslave (actually has no duration listed but should be permanent)
Drain Magery (there is no reason this shouldn't be permanent and perhaps be considered a curse)
Final Rest (should be permanent, no reason you couldn't dispel the final rest and then do whatever to the body)
Flesh to Ice
Great Geas
Mass Zombie (should be permanent, magic animating zombies can be disrupted)
Oath
Partial Petrifaction
Permanent Forgetfulness (should be permanent as it can be reversed and resists Restore Memory)
Permanent Madness
Soul Jar
Strike Barren
Zombie


Flesh to Stone is actually listed as Instantaneous in the book but should actually be permanent


Stone to Flesh is already listed as an Instantaneous duration


Icy Touch should have a duration of 10 minutes


Mature should have a duration of 1 hour during which time the spell could be disrupted [or 1 minute as specified by the spell description])


The following spells I give a duration of indefinite and include the circumstances that cause the duration to end:
Inspired Creation (the duration ends when the creation is finished, up until that time the spell could be disrupted)
Lesser Geas (the spell ends when the geas is fulfilled, spell could be removed before that)
Pestilence (the spell ends when the disease runs it course naturally, assuming it's not removed by remove curse or such before that time)
Rebuild (the spell duration is equal to the time it takes for the item to rebuild itself, during which time the spell can be disrupted)


These spells should have a duration of 1 month (which is the time the healing takes)

Regeneration (this one wasn't in your list, though Instant Regeneration was)
Restoration

[Anthony]

For reference, the ones I left in black are ones I'm fine with being permanent. I got the durations from the spell charts in the back; there are some minor differences with the text in the main book (and there's purify air, whose duration is listed as Works instantly. Purification is permanent. WTF duration is that?).

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Anthony

For reference, the ones I left in black are ones I'm fine with being permanent. I got the durations from the spell charts in the back; there are some minor differences with the text in the main book (and there's purify air, whose duration is listed as Works instantly. Purification is permanent. WTF duration is that?).

Heh... at least the Spell Table is clear :)

You left off Create Air. Even though the breeze has a fixed duration, the created air should have the same duration class as the other Create element spells. Your list is pretty big... I see a couple of spells I'd like to comment on, but I'll go over the whole and get back to you tomorrow, to try and cut down on multiple replies.

[Anthony]

Added create and purify air to the list. As a side note, create or transform spells can also be solved by a requirement that 'this spell only lasts as long as the material remains a part of the original block; any pieces removed revert to their original material', but doing so makes create food and create water mostly useless, makes it quite unclear what happens when you plant plants in created (or essential) earth, and is nonsensical for anything that creates air.

[gruundehn]

Anthony, I think you are confusing duration with effect.
Create spells last only for an instant, that is how long it takes to create the material. The material is permanent bring some method of destroying it. When you cast the age spell the spell lasts only for an instant but the subject ages 10 years permanently baring some method of reversing the aging process. When you charge a powerstone with a spell you put a point of mana into the stone just as if you had left it "out" to recharge so the spell last only for an instant but the effect is a created point of mana that lasts until used. Drain Mana works in an instant but creates a permanent effect. The same with healing spells and so forth.
If a spell does not require Concentration to maintain nor has a specific listed duration then the effect of the spell is permanent but the spell lasts only an instant.
Mundane world example: It would take a second to spray paint the Mona Lisa but the effect would be permanent (so to speak).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by gruundehn

Anthony, I think you are confusing duration with effect.

Nope, spell duration is defined on page M10, and permanent effects are suspended in a no mana zone and can be dispelled with dispel magic, remove curse, or counterspell, whereas instant effects can leave behind a persistent but nonmagical effect.