See Secrets spell

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Bruno

That's not a secret door, that's a concealed door (you know, the ones that were marked with a -C- on the old maps :D) and I think the distinction is just as good now as it was then.

"Detect Secret Doors" in the Old Days detected "concealed doors" too.

The problem si that we;ve got a spell that's a mash-up of "Detect Secret Doors" and "Detect Traps" and people keep wanting to limit it by arbitrary defintions of what those are.

[BaHalus]

Intent is the line. And specificity is needed too. general privacy is too broad and not specific. And I didn't get the difference between hidden and concealed.

See details and see secrets seems different to me. A see details spell that don't care about intent would be cool, as a distinct spell, but doesn't seem, to me, to be the best interpretation of the spell as written. If you just see details you see lost items as well.

Who wrote this spell, by the way?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

"Detect Secret Doors" in the Old Days detected "concealed doors" too.

The problem si that we;ve got a spell that's a mash-up of "Detect Secret Doors" and "Detect Traps" and people keep wanting to limit it by arbitrary defintions of what those are.

Obviously it needs a few limitations if otherwise it is going to detect everything anyone ever put away of out of sight without any limit on range or time.

[Mathulhu]

If someone looked around my room right now in search of chocolate what should the spell pick up?

1. The chocolate in the draw. Hidden from my girlfriend, surprise chocolates are a man's best friend.

2. The chocolate in the unmarked plastic tub. Their usual container, we both know to look in there for chocolate.

3. The chocolate accidentally put in the chocolate box that normally contains sewing supplies.

4. The chocolate behind the more recently bought biscuits.

Edited formatting

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

When is the appropriate time to block intent-detection, then? When the secret is hidden? When the spell is cast? When the user's gaze falls on the item?

When the secret is hidden, or when the user's gaze falls on the item, or in any intervening time if using remove aura.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

Who wrote this spell, by the way?

It's from previous editions of GURPS Magic, written by Steve Jackson. Sometime in the 90s, or possibly in the late 80s, so don't bet on much memory of original intent.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

"Detect Secret Doors" in the Old Days detected "concealed doors" too.

The problem si that we;ve got a spell that's a mash-up of "Detect Secret Doors" and "Detect Traps" and people keep wanting to limit it by arbitrary defintions of what those are.

I think what's really going on is that some people want to emphasize "hidden" so that the spell detects things that are concealed and out of view, while others emphasize the phrase "in the subject's vision" so that things must be in a direct line-of-sight to be detected.

If you've been playing with a certain interpretation and you're comfortable with it, then just keep doing what you're doing. Kromm's ruling is the closest you're likely to get to an official one, but that doesn't mean you're forced to accept it *shrug*

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

If someone looked around my room right now in search of chocolate what should the spell pick up?

1. The chocolate in the draw. Hidden from my girlfriend, surprise chocolates are a man's best friend.

2. The chocolate in the unmarked plastic tub. Their usual container, we both know to look in there for chocolate.

3. The chocolate accidentally put in the chocolate box that normally contains sewing supplies.

4. The chocolate behind the more recently bought biscuits.

Edited formatting

Another thought experiment:

1) A man has some gold he wants to keep from casual theives. So he puts it in a safe that's flush with the wall (but clearly visible) and locks it with a key. Is the gold hidden? Is it secret?

2) The man dies and the key is never found. A new owner moves in and doesn't have access to the inside of the safe. Instead of having the safe removed (due to lack of money or whatever), she panels over it so she doesn't have a big honking inaccessible safe she continually will have to answer questions about when entertaining. Is the gold hidden? Is it secret? Is the safe hidden? Is it secret?

3) The woman dies without telling anyone about the safe in her wall. New owner moves in. Never knew the safe was there. Doesn't care for the paneling much, so builds out a new wall on top of the paneling. Is the gold hidden? Is it secret? Is the safe hidden? Is it secret?

At which point does the See Secrets spell kick in?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jerander

1) A man has some gold he wants to keep from casual theives. So he puts it in a safe that's flush with the wall (but clearly visible) and locks it with a key. Is the gold hidden? Is it secret?

The gold isn't relevant to see secrets, as you wouldn't see it anyway, but the safe is clearly not hidden.

Originally Posted by Jerander

2) The man dies and the key is never found. A new owner moves in and doesn't have access to the inside of the safe. Instead of having the safe removed (due to lack of money or whatever), she panels over it so she doesn't have a big honking inaccessible safe she continually will have to answer questions about when entertaining. Is the gold hidden? Is it secret? Is the safe hidden? Is it secret?

The safe is now hidden for purposes of see secrets, though according to some versions on how the spell works it isn't detectable since the paneling blocks line of sight and doesn't have a door which can be opened.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The gold isn't relevant to see secrets, as you wouldn't see it anyway, but the safe is clearly not hidden.

The safe is now hidden for purposes of see secrets, though according to some versions on how the spell works it isn't detectable since the paneling blocks line of sight and doesn't have a door which can be opened.

How about in step 3, the paneling hidden by the new wall? Is that hidden for the purposes of See Secrets?