I think the Fitness spectrum should be removed

[Mailanka]

Strange thoughts strike me in the shower.

I often use Fit/Unfit to reflect various themes of how healthy a character is, though I find using Fit/Unfit vs high HT and low HT to be tricky, since they're all reflections of the same thing. High levels of fitness prevent you from getting sick/dying and make you last longer when it comes to fatigue, and so do high levels of HT, they just do it differently (mainly, +2 HT gives you +2 fatigue, while "+2 Fitness" gives you double fatigue, effectively, but only under certain circumstances, and costs slightly more).

I thought "It would be simpler if Fitness didn't exist. Shame that it exists to depict..."

And then it hit me: Why fitness exists at all. Back in 3e, there was an article on horses that created Fitness, and it needed to exist because fatigue was covered by ST. Thus, horses who were no larger/heavier/stronger than other horses might be able to far outlast other horses who were. The best way to reflect this was creating a fitness spectrum. But with the change of moving HP to ST and Fatigue to HT, I argue that fitness is no longer necessary. Some specific elements are lost, but GURPS has too many advantages and little "nuances" already. If you want a trait that doubles how quickly your fatigue returns, create a variation of "rapid healing" or "regeneration" that restores your fatigue.

(For that matter, Rapid Healing is also largely redundant now that Regeneration is just right there in the book)

[robkelk]

I don't get sick very often, but I'm decidedly unfit. How would you model me without the "Fitness spectrum"?

[GodBeastX]

Above Poster, Resistance.

That being said, I don't know what you would call something that lets you gain more fatigue or spend less.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

Above Poster, Resistance.

That being said, I don't know what you would call something that lets you gain more fatigue or spend less.

Why not just "more fatigue?"

If I have 20 fatigue and you have 10 fatigue, it takes me twice as long to be fatigued as it takes you, and while I'll take exactly as long to go from utterly exhausted to perfectly fine as you do, I'll hit your fatigue level in half the time.

Also, HT is often called on for rolls to see if fatigue will be lost. So simply having higher HT makes it less likely you'll lose fatigue.

[arconom]

GURPS has a lot of overloaded attributes and advantages. Separate them into atomic units and you cease to have this issue.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ransom

Fitness also allows for characters who have a long endurance for physical feats like running without giving them more reserves to burn on spells and Extra Effort, and conversely, allows for Unfit wizards who tire quickly in physical situations but are still effective casters with good HT saves.

Energy Reserve? I mean, if you had wizards who could spend FP to cast spells, the most powerful would probably look like ultra marathoners. Fix would seem to me be to let them spend some other currency.

[Hannes665]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Strange thoughts strike me in the shower.

I often use Fit/Unfit to reflect various themes of how healthy a character is, though I find using Fit/Unfit vs high HT and low HT to be tricky, since they're all reflections of the same thing. High levels of fitness prevent you from getting sick/dying and make you last longer when it comes to fatigue, and so do high levels of HT, they just do it differently (mainly, +2 HT gives you +2 fatigue, while "+2 Fitness" gives you double fatigue, effectively, but only under certain circumstances, and costs slightly more).

I thought "It would be simpler if Fitness didn't exist. Shame that it exists to depict..."

And then it hit me: Why fitness exists at all. Back in 3e, there was an article on horses that created Fitness, and it needed to exist because fatigue was covered by ST. Thus, horses who were no larger/heavier/stronger than other horses might be able to far outlast other horses who were. The best way to reflect this was creating a fitness spectrum. But with the change of moving HP to ST and Fatigue to HT, I argue that fitness is no longer necessary. Some specific elements are lost, but GURPS has too many advantages and little "nuances" already. If you want a trait that doubles how quickly your fatigue returns, create a variation of "rapid healing" or "regeneration" that restores your fatigue.

(For that matter, Rapid Healing is also largely redundant now that Regeneration is just right there in the book)

With HT you get FP, Basic Speed and HT based skills and ofcourse HT. With Fit you get +1 to HT rolls and Very Fit you get +2 HT rolls and regain FP. I like the fact that I can have a Character that is not good with HT based skills, lets say HT 10 while he is good at running and other physical feats that cost FP.

Rapid Healing is jus a lower version of Regeneration. I would allow in a "real" game Rapid Healing and Very Rapid Healing, while I would not allow Regeneration.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by robkelk

I don't get sick very often, but I'm decidedly unfit. How would you model me without the "Fitness spectrum"?

Derived stats based on HT, as Will and Per are based on IQ, and can be bought up or sold down.

[Figleaf23]

In my still-in-development disaggregation of stats project, HT encompasses two subtraits, Constitution and Fitness. With Fitness as an attribute I would eliminate the Advantage spectrum.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

I thought "It would be simpler if Fitness didn't exist. Shame that it exists to depict..."

You'd probably have to re-write all the long-term FP use, loss and regaining rules.

For example, the main use of Fit currently in Gurps is for marching infantry. You can make a Roman Legionary who marches with Heavy Encumbrance and thus loses 4 FP per hour (no HT roll involved). Yet F8it allows him to regain that FP in 20 minutes (again no HT roll involved) . Long term ground travel mostly balances out on this basis.

Because so much of this involves no HT roll you can't simply substitute more HT for Fit.

Even if HT rolls were instituted for every loss or gain of FP (an added complication) there might be undesired results, especially involving Survival Rolls.

<shrug> You can't simply subtract Fit/Very Fit without having to make a lot of other changes. I doubt things would be any simpler by the time you were done.