A GURPS Magic System for Mythic American Indian

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by joshualevy

Obviously I mixed up "ritual path magic" and "ritual magic". Sorry about that.

I guess I have two questions to everyone involved:

1. As I don't have the T:RPM book, can you tell me the important differences? I think I would generally prefer to have a spell list, rather than a "roll your own every time" magic system. That's is for playability reasons. I think that both players and GMs have a much easier time with a magic system, if it comes with a list of spells. Even if it is not quite as realistic. (And this is even more true for a magic system like native american, where there the players are not previously familiar with it.) But surely there must be other differences as well. I'm also interested in SJGames support. It looks like RPM might have more support and more recent support than Path/Book magic. Anyone care to comment on that?

2. For people who have used the Path/Book system (or the T:RPM system) in low tech, non-standard fantasy settings. How did they work? What were the problems and what were the strong points?

Thanks for all you help so far. I've appreciated all the comments that I have seen here. Even the comments I'm not using, I still benefit from them.

Joshua

The T:RPM book does come with a list of pre-made spells that cover a reasonable range of utility, and are easily modified for greater or lesser effect. I also strongly recommend you work up a few more appropriate spells beforehand. That still allows for winging it when needed, but also gives some reliable standbys.

I'm using RPM in my current game, but it hasn't come up a lot yet. One PC blew up the shed trying to make an explosive bullet last session.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by joshualevy

Obviously I mixed up "ritual path magic" and "ritual magic". Sorry about that.

No big deal. It happens fairly often it seems.

Originally Posted by joshualevy

1. As I don't have the T:RPM book, can you tell me the important differences? I think I would generally prefer to have a spell list, rather than a "roll your own every time" magic system. That's is for playability reasons. I think that both players and GMs have a much easier time with a magic system, if it comes with a list of spells. Even if it is not quite as realistic. (And this is even more true for a magic system like native american, where there the players are not previously familiar with it.) But surely there must be other differences as well. I'm also interested in SJGames support. It looks like RPM might have more support and more recent support than Path/Book magic. Anyone care to comment on that?

It does. I know on my blog and patreon (see below) I've got quite a few spells. There are also quite a few in Pyramid - I'm answering this from my phone so I'm sure someone will give you a good list. The differences are pretty distinct. Path/Book is not really that flexible in that if you want custom spells for your game you have to write them up and there is no design system. You (as the GM) simply have to go with what you feel is balanced. RPM on the other hand comes with a built-in design system that is subject to GM oversight. You can make the system quite flavorful with only a few bits and peices here and there.

Originally Posted by joshualevy

2. For people who have used the Path/Book system (or the T:RPM system) in low tech, non-standard fantasy settings. How did they work? What were the problems and what were the strong points?

It would work just fine, but if I had to choose between Path/Book and RPM for medicine rituals I'd choose the later for the reasons I'd already stated. I talk about RPM on my blog quite a bit and have quite a few spells already stated (if that is a concern). There are also a lot of official sources - including an article I wrote about stone age magic.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by joshualevy

2. For people who have used the Path/Book system (or the T:RPM system) in low tech, non-standard fantasy settings. How did they work? What were the problems and what were the strong points?

The biggest problem I encountered with both Path/Book and RPM in low-tech fantasy settings was with players expecting and wanting quick-and-dirty D&D/Hogwart's style magic, which neither is. All of the rituals in Path/Book, using the Effect Shaping model, take a minimum of ten minutes to maximum of an hour and a half to cast, which means it lends itself to out-of-combat magic but not combat-time magic. RPM, built off many of the same rules as Path/Book, is also time consuming, taking minutes to cast. (Both can prepare charms to trigger spells at a moment's notice ahead of time.) Player expectations verses what the system is actually meant to emulate, which sometimes makes it difficult to sell to players.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by joshualevy

In terms of customizations:

• I might make the rituals even a little longer than they are now. Maybe twice as long.
• Intead of books, I would use epic poems, stories, or songs instead.

Joshua

You can already double the time rituals take to get a +1 (and double it again for another +1 and so on).

If you're really in non-combat time this doesn't matter as much as it might appear on first glance. One hour or two out of combat is much the same.

Of course there are no literal books in a society without writing. all "recorded" knowledge will be in oral form. The real difference between Paths and books is that "Books" (regardless of form) can have arbitrary content while a Path has a general theme.

[joshualevy]

Y'all convinced me to buy Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, so I could compare it to Path/Book. I think I'm going to use Path/Book for my first few characters, because it seems easier to get started. But I will hold T:RPM in reserve. (Maybe as an optional, more free form magic for those that want it.)

Joshua