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Old 03-04-2013, 03:10 PM   #11
johndallman
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Tax law needs constant updating, too.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Of more potential interest is discussing the ways that Law might be used in games. If you need constant knowledge on police procedure, that's one thing. If, on the other hand, you want to know if your lawyer PC can figure out a new area of law, that's another.

I would put it this way: a lawyer is probably only immediately conversant in just a few areas of law. These are the areas they practice the most and would be comfortable giving professional advice in. This would be their optional specialty or techniques (if you like that idea). However, almost any lawyer is going to be able to *figure out* almost any area of law, given time and motivation. If a tax lawyer PC suddenly needs to figure out the finer points of corporate law for an adventure, that shouldn't be too challenging--just time consuming.

It's also the difference between being willing to give professional advice versus just providing a personal, but educated, opinion on something. Let's say the tax lawyer PC is also involved in some potentially illicit corporate shenanigans. The other PCs ask him if he thinks Action X is illegal. It's not tax law, so he's probably not comfortable answering immediately, but would be happy to provide his friends with an opinion, though not one they should rely upon legally, after a few days/weeks/whatever of research.

See the difference?
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by apoc527 View Post
I would put it this way: a lawyer is probably only immediately conversant in just a few areas of law.
Mechanically I think this is handled through mandatory specialization with cross-defaulting, though there's something to be said for trashbinning the Research skill and only using skill-based research.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:04 PM   #14
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Default Another one --

Probate's a biggie in the US of A.

Went through it recently with the death of an elderly relative. Everything was cut & dried but it still took 2 years to process -- and that with another relative very experienced in administration riding herd.

You could use this as a hook for an adventure -- there's a big bequest waiting for a PC -- but it'll take years unless a single key document can be located.

Have said document be in an interesting and dangerous place and hey presto! adventure.

[Of course, if the referee doesn't want the PC to get rich quick, he only has to let some other possible legatee challenge it. That way the PC will be in a grave or a retirement home before he/she sees the $.]
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
In reality, someone who can think like a lawyer is at much less disadvantage when changing fields or jurisdictions than GURPS currently has it. He'll need extra time to find relevant local precedents and suchlike, yes, but he'll be able to write and interpret clauses in contracts with almost the same facility, for example. At the very least, characters ought to specialise in the form of legal system and treat individual national legal systems within those as familiarities for many (not all) purposes. And while specialist lawyers do exist, the current rules make little allowance for the fact that a lot of Administrative or Criminal cases turn on Constitutional grounds and so forth. The fields are very interrelated.
Have you ever tried to work within the legal system of an alien language and culture? Even the idea that law is written down is only true in a minority of cultures.

I allow a single specialty to cover entire legal systems if they are small or specialized enough. Law (Khanga Customary) or Law (Catholic Cannon) seem plenty detailed for any game I can imagine running. Societies with a dozen or so distinct and overlapping legal systems can be fun.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:28 AM   #16
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Okay, thanks for the many answers. But I have great trouble placing them into context of GURPS specialisations. E.g. just what is Material Law? Does it handle a percentage of the Contract and a percentage of Administrative specialisations, or what? How many mandatory specialisations are there in a typical jurisdiction of a given type (e.g. common/civil), and what are they?
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
E.g. just what is Material Law?
Unless the meaning is a different one in the English language, this would be
the same as Substantive Law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantive_law
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How many mandatory specialisations are there in a typical jurisdiction of a given type (e.g. common/civil), and what are they?
In Germany there are currently about 20 specialisations for lawyers, and any
lawyer can have up to 3 such specialisations. However, these specialisations
are not mandatory, it is up to the lawyer whether he wants to specialize.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:05 AM   #18
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by rust View Post
In Germany there are currently about 20 specialisations for lawyers, and any
lawyer can have up to 3 such specialisations. However, these specialisations
are not mandatory, it is up to the lawyer whether he wants to specialize.
I mean when buying the skill. The Law skill requires specialising by a non-localised field (examples given as International Law, Space Law and Catholic Canon Law), or a jurisdiction+field (examples given as British Criminal, Canadian Constitutional, USA Contract).
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
How many mandatory specialisations are there in a typical jurisdiction of a given type (e.g. common/civil), and what are they?
German law has no _mandatory_ specialization at all. The specializations rust mentioned are optional, and do not cover all law. They are simply an option to get a special title (Fachanwalt) for a specialized field where the authorities felt that many clients might be interested in getting a specialist. But there are many areas without a Fachanwalt option.

How many specializations do you want ? The RAW are very unclear. If "criminal" is one, "civil" and "administrative/public" might be the other two for a total of three. But "police" is a subfield of "administrative/public", and there are many comparable subfields. Same with "contract" and "civil". On the level of "police" and "contract" I would guess a total of several dozen.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:56 AM   #20
Figleaf23
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Default Re: Calling all lawyers! List of specific fields for Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
... E.g. just what is Material Law? Does it handle a percentage of the Contract and a percentage of Administrative specialisations, or what? How many mandatory specialisations are there in a typical jurisdiction of a given type (e.g. common/civil), and what are they?
Unfortunately, you're asking for an explanation of the rules in terms of the world, but all that is available is a way to explain the world in terms of the rules. Or maybe vice versa (but it's only one or the other, not both).

Specializations are only mandatory in the game, not generally in the world. Similarly, in the real world, the specializations are not perfect stove-pipes. Family lawyers must know some property law. Tax lawyers must know some estate law if they work for individuals, or corporate law if they work for corporations. Etc.

I'll suggest again -- think of how many specializations a Hard skill should be divided into as a game function, then there will almost certainly be a schematic of the field of law with a number of categories to match.
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