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Old 10-18-2018, 07:30 AM   #1
Malleg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Batteries how do they work?

So i'm designing a power for my character, the concept should work like this

She channels her Abilities trough a custom built synth keytar, doing so depletes the battery of the synth faster than normal use.

IF broken or stolen the synth is not irreplaceable but it would require time, maybe even weeks, to build a new one assuming she has the components.

the instrument is not too frail but not armored either and its electronic any number of things can damage it so i assumed that it has DR2 it is worn with a strap so it is somewhere between "can be taken with a a quick contest of ST" and "must be forcibly removed" i assumed the latter.

now for the sore spot, the battery, i was thinking to implement it as an energy reserve, i would assume it would be energy reserve, special recharge but i don't know if it's adequate for a battery swap scenario any suggestions?
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:43 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

An ER normally recharges at one point per ten minutes. Being able to recharge it just by swapping batteries means you can recharge much faster. That is, this is an Enhancement rather than a Limitation. But how much does it cost? To get a feel, let's look at some similar abilities and Enhancements that would approximate the build, and see how much they cost.

The -70% value for Special Recharge is assuming the original conditions out of GURPS Horror -- that is, you can recharge it only by entering into combat (or at least using potentially hostile combat-like abilities), as with the examples of Absorption, using Leech, etc. That is, vampires, psychic vampires, etc. That -70% is worth even more than the example Slow Recharge at 1 point / day at -60%, so it applies only when it's something hard to do. Changing batteries is not particularly time consuming, risky, or even expensive.

Limited Use (Reload) is closer, but that rule is written in terms of halving the value of another Limitation, so it's not quite so useful for estimating the value of a new Limitation.

Another point of comparison is a though experiment of assuming that changing the batteries is instant and effortless, a "free action". If you could carry only one spare set, that's really the same as doubling the size of your ER, or a +100% Enhancement. (It would really scale up with the number of sets of batteries you could carry.) Fast recharging is quite powerful.

Slow Recharge at -20% means your ER regens at 24 points / day, rather than the default 144 points per day. Invert that 6:1 ratio, and say the ER regens at 1 point per ten seconds, and you might invert the value to +20%. That's still pretty slow for a battery swap, though (since I imagine the ER is 10-30 points if not more, normally taking several hours to recharge).

The 144:1 Slow Recharge (1 point/day) is -60%; flip that around to +60% and you might round up to 15 ER per minute. One minute is long enough to make sure it only happens out of combat, and short enough to make sure it's not really an issue in most out-of-combat-time situations. Sounds a little long to me for anything designed to have swappable batteries (little plastic latch on the cover, etc), but if we count rummaging around to find spares and so on, maybe it's not too long.

This rate is also roughly comparable to having Very Fast Regeneration (ER Only), for 60 points per minute, costing 100 CP. ("Fatigue Only" for Regeneration is -0%.) Then there's Regeneration (Limited) (Powers p70) to accelerate one Advantage, which is a -40% Limitation changing the way you read time units (days to hours to minutes to seconds). 144 ER per day, changed to hour then to minute, calls for Fast Regeneration (50 CP, -40% is really 30 CP). 30 CP (flat) is about the same as +100% on a 10-point ER, or +60% on a 15-point ER, so this touchstone is actually in the same ballpark as the invert-the-Slow Recharge comparison.

Disposable batteries with a noticeable cost might count as a -5% Nuisance.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:01 AM   #3
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Being able to recharge it just by swapping batteries means you can recharge much faster. That is, this is an Enhancement rather than a Limitation
"it would require time, maybe even weeks, to build a new one assuming she has the components."

If the character had a 2nd battery, I think it would be easier to price that as a separate energy reserve instead of an enhancement.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:34 AM   #4
Malleg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Changing batteries is not particularly time consuming, risky, or even expensive.
in high tech it states it takes about 3 seconds to swap power cell, also here we are talking about batteries that powers a synthesizer, amplifier and loudspeaker with technologies from the 80's so we are talking up to 10 D batteries high capacity LI-ION or even worse lead acid battery, it would be safe using D's but it should still require at least 3 to six seconds of fiddling.

also the energy reserve would power only the abilities(well those and the normal music playing use) and be their only source of energy.

the limitation would not be the fact that the ER can be recharged swapping battery but the fact that the usual self charging does not take place.

can i take limited uses on a whole power and define different costs for each ability? like having an abilities that drain multiple uses? because that and fast recharge would describe fairly well what i'm looking for

Last edited by Malleg; 10-18-2018 at 09:46 AM. Reason: typos & clarification
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:13 AM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

It's probably more effective to just take limited uses or a custom limitation; costs fatigue plus an energy reserve has a good chance of costing more than unlimited duration and is fairly inflexible.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:51 AM   #6
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
"it would require time, maybe even weeks, to build a new one assuming she has the components."
I don't follow. I didn't imagine that the character would have to rebuild the entire keytar to change the batteries.

[/quote]If the character had a 2nd battery, I think it would be easier to price that as a separate energy reserve instead of an enhancement.[/QUOTE]That could work, too. In that case, you might go with Preparation Required to represent changing batteries. It's a little slow (1 minute), but it does have built-in the property that you can only activate one ER at a time. Notice that in this case you're paying the price for both ERs, though. If they're (say) 30 points, then 2 of them costs 60 CP, -20% for Prep Required is 48 CP. Not so different from the suggested 30 CP + 60% for 48 CP... It is a more straightforward way to handle players that want to carry a backpack full of batteries, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Malleg View Post
also the energy reserve would power only the abilities(well those and the normal music playing use) and be their only source of energy.
Abilities that can only be powered from an ER and not by normal FP have that as a -5% Limitation. (If you want to require that Limitation on all abilities of this power, one easy way to note that rule is just to include it in the Power Modifier, so that "Keytar Hero" comes out to -15% (or whatever) instead of -10%.)

Quote:
can i take limited uses on a whole power and define different costs for each ability?
I don't think there's a canonical way to change the "use count" per ability. I'd allow it, and bump up the Limitation value accordingly. (10 "uses" from a set of abilities that cost 2 "uses" is the same as 5 uses. The trick comes in guessing the probability of use of each ability when they all have different values. But I'd say the goal to index the cost is total uses / expected value of a "use".) The rule as written suffers from the 10-use cap (with more than 10 uses per day not being considered a real limitation), so it's hard to have a pool side of, say, 60, just so you can divide that by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, and 15 easily for a fine-grained scale.)

As long as we're talking about Costs FP, I might as well point out that it's a popular opinion on the forum that the RAW version is underpriced at -5% / FP. PK's houserule just doubles that to -10%. I'm partial to the argument that the first point or two have the most impact (changing an unlimited-use ability to one with a limit), and so have fooled around with sequences like a -20%, -15%, -10%, -10%, -10%....
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:57 PM   #7
Malleg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
I don't follow. I didn't imagine that the character would have to rebuild the entire keytar to change the batteries.
i must have explained it wrong, the rebuild mechanic is there because it has breakable, i mean it is made mostly of plastic and electronics.

the battery change dynamic is there so that in an encounter i will have to balance how i use it, the only direct attack power i have should drain my battery and force me to replace batteries in a screwed compartment.
The buff and heal abilities would drain less energy.

it is really more a matter of flavour then anything but my gm is new in the seat so i'm trying to not ask for fiat o flavour and present the most RAW interpretation to her to ease her job.

that said i'm looking into spaceship power management and considering to build the thing with mecha rules... so yes finding a way to build it became a matter of principle XD
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:31 PM   #8
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

I would actually model each battery as a different gadget, with the character paying normal price for each battery. For example, if the batteries gave ER 10 with Breakable (DR 5, SM-6, Unrepairable, -40%), Can Be Stolen (Stealth or Trickery, -20%), and Electrical (-20%), each battery would only cost 6 CP. The instrument itself could be a gadget with similar limitations, except it would have Breakable (DR 25, SM-2, Unrepairable, -40%).
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:22 PM   #9
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malleg View Post
i must have explained it wrong, the rebuild mechanic is there because it has breakable, i mean it is made mostly of plastic and electronics.
Sure; that makes sense. But it's a separate question from the ER. Certainly if the keytar is broken, whether or not you still have a Keytar ER that you can't actually use for anything is a moot point!

Accessibility (Only While Playing Trumpet) is canonical (B110) at -20%. You could substitute "Keytar" easily enough, and apply that to all the abilities (or also put it in the PM). Gadget Limitations to model an ordinary trumpet will easily add up to more than this, though. (But note the intro text that describes gadgets as " items that even the most advanced technology could not produce" -- even if not Unique, they're still pretty special, ability-granting wonders.)
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:34 PM   #10
Malleg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Batteries how do they work?

The self made aspect of the keytar is important for the concept so gadget limitations seem more thematically correct, it can be rebuilt or repaired by the character but it cannot be simply bought.

A guy on the subreddit suggested using trigger and it got me thinking about using battery life hours as a required trigger.

In raw trigger gives a whole minute of use of an advantage but I could couple it with decreased duration from psionic powers.

and maybe the reload battery time could be a quirk?
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