[The Company][Kromm] Treating bullet wounds in a jungle

[apoc527]

Reading over Kromm's campaign notes for this weekend, I began to wonder how other GMs adjudicate the kind of "first aid/field surgery" that was clearly required to save Vinnie's life after being shot 3 times in the chest in the middle of the jungle.

I'm hoping Kromm himself stops by to explain the series of rolls (and the level of damage that Vinnie himself took), but if he doesn't get around to it, how would you handle it?

First, because The Company is clearly an Action! game (and if I understand, the inspiration for the Action! books anyway), we can assume that certain ugly rules from High Tech and Tactical Shooting are likely not in play. So, we'll say the three shots hitting Vinnie in the chest were all Torso hits (instead of Vitals).

I don't know if Action! games use the Body Hits rule (seems like it might be wise), but I'll say that Kromm isn't using that particular option. So, a suppressed carbine is probably doing about 4d. I forget if Vinnie had body armor...probably not, so the average on 4d is 14, three times, so Vinnie could have easily taken about 42 damage.

If Vinnie is the Wheelman, then's he's probably ST 10, HP 10, HT 12, and maybe Fit, but that's not on the Template, so we'll say not. Given how long the Company has been going, I'll speculate that Vinnie is more like HP 12 or 13, but regardless, 42 damage is a lot. If he's HP 12, that much damage puts him into -HPx2, not far from -HPx3. That's two death checks, which he obviously made. It would seem odd to ignore Bleeding in the middle of the jungle, so I'll assume that's his main problem: 3 wounds bleeding at -2. With HT 12, Vinnie has a 50% chance to bleed every minute. That's a 12.5% chance of succeeding at 3 in a row to stop bleeding naturally, otherwise he's taking 1 injury every 2 minutes about. He's dead in approximately an hour assuming he doesn't get lucky.

Rolls to stop the bleeding are only at -2, so a competent medic with some supplies will be able to do that and the patient will likely only lose a few more HP during the bullet removal. Here's where things get fuzzy: is bullet removal necessary to stop the bleeding and does that require Surgery? Is First Aid enough to help here?

If Vinnie took even a single hit to the Vitals, he's in serious trouble at around 70 damage--a mere 2 damage from death assuming HP 12. Plus, unless I'm mistaken the roll to stop the bleeding from a 42 point Vitals hit is something ungodly, like -13 and requires Surgery. Good luck.

So, how close was I? What would you do?

[Anders]

Just FYI - don't write Kromm in the header. It makes people not respond since you asked specifically for The Canadian Cat-Carer.

[Bruno]

It also specifically says in the forum introduction stickie not to put Kromm in the subject line, because it annoys the crud out of him.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by apoc527

Reading over Kromm's campaign notes...

If Vinnie is the Wheelman, then's he's probably ST 10, HP 10, HT 12, and maybe Fit, but that's not on the Template, so we'll say not. Given how long the Company has been going, I'll speculate that Vinnie is more like HP 12 or 13, but regardless, 42 damage is a lot. If he's HP 12, that much damage puts him into -HPx2, not far from -HPx3. That's two death checks, which he obviously made. It would seem odd to ignore Bleeding in the middle of the jungle, so I'll assume that's his main problem: 3 wounds bleeding at -2. With HT 12, Vinnie has a 50% chance to bleed every minute. That's a 12.5% chance of succeeding at 3 in a row to stop bleeding naturally, otherwise he's taking 1 injury every 2 minutes about. He's dead in approximately an hour assuming he doesn't get lucky.

You might want to read the attachment Kromm posted here, which is basically the character design notes for The Company.
All Agents are built from a standard base template, they all have (at least) ST11 (HP11), DX13, IQ13, HT13.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by Bruno

It also specifically says in the forum introduction stickie not to put Kromm in the subject line, because it annoys the crud out of him.

So it does! I won't do it again. I've seen it done before in threads where no one has said anything. Gone.

[Polydamas]

The Company is a grittily realistic campaign with no cinematic traits allowed, although I understand that Kromm varies in how many optional rules he uses for a particular scene. You might want to look up the rules for surgery in the Basic Set, BioTech, and one of the Low Tech Companions; and the realistic bleeding rules from various places and rules for surgical kit in High Tech pp. 223-224 and Low Tech pp. ???. As a simple rule, I would assume that all projectiles which wound for pi or imp but don't Overpenetrate need to be removed, and that removing bullets normally requires Surgery skill.

[apoc527]

What happens if you don't remove the bullets though?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by apoc527

What happens if you don't remove the bullets though?

Realistically, that depends on where the bullet is; there are plenty of realistic situations where it's more dangerous to remove the bullet than to leave it in place. RAW doesn't mention the subject as far as I know.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by apoc527

I'm hoping Kromm himself stops by to explain the series of rolls (and the level of damage that Vinnie himself took), but if he doesn't get around to it, how would you handle it?

Vinnie has 11 HP and took 43 points of injury. Thus, he was between -2×HP and -3×HP. He had to make two HT rolls not to die, and he made them both (one was a critical success, even). So he wasn't mortally wounded, just bleeding out. These were straight torso shots that missed the vitals, so in real-world terms, I said that since he was shot while trying to sweep the barrel out of line, the three-round burst blew through his shoulder and side from the front.

Owing to the severity of the wounds (three majors to the torso), I ruled that First Aid could not stop his bleeding, only Surgery. It wouldn't be true open surgery on the chest (so no -3 for that), but it would be more than first aid. Between improvised gear (-5), crappy conditions (-3), and the medic (Qoqa) having a wounded hand (-4), it wasn't an easy roll. Fortunately, Qoqa had Surgery at 18. She also got +2 for focus from Autohypnosis, which the player purchased, with my blessing, to represent Qoqa's ability to stay calm in extreme circumstances. And I always allow up to two surgical assistants to make complementary skill rolls; both Chaturvedi and Wen succeeded, for another +2. That came to 10.

Qoqa actually made her roll for this, so she stopped Vinnie's bleeding. Once he was stable, she was able to take extra time to get a bonus to cancel the penalty for going in and getting the slugs out. That amounted to the same roll, and she needed her Luck for that. But again, she succeeded. I require bullet removal for two reasons: (1) to move the patient safely over any distance unless you have a fancy stretcher, since any jarring motion might dislodge the slug and cause complications, and (2) to avoid severe penalties to the HT roll for infection.

Vinnie hasn't been wounded for long enough to make his first infection roll. If Qoqa makes a Physician roll, she may be able to prevent this. She does have a couple of shots of antibiotic left, and some vodka to rinse off her work. We'll see.

Originally Posted by apoc527

First, because The Company is clearly an Action! game

No, it isn't. It helped inspire the Action series, sure, but I don't pull punches. I don't let people spend points for success, I impose major penalties whenever they would apply (see above), and there are consequences like infection. We even roll on the tables in Martial Arts to see what lasting horrors serious wounds will inflict.

Originally Posted by apoc527

we can assume that certain ugly rules from High Tech and Tactical Shooting are likely not in play.

They're all in play. Vinnie took three full-damage shots to the torso. He lucked out on not being hit in the vitals.

Originally Posted by apoc527

If Vinnie is the Wheelman, then's he's probably ST 10, HP 10, HT 12, and maybe Fit, but that's not on the Template, so we'll say not.

Vinnie has ST 11, HP 11, HT 11, Fit, High Pain Threshold, and Luck.

Originally Posted by apoc527

So, how close was I? What would you do?

Pretty close! You slightly lowballed Qoqa and Vinnie's abilities, I think, but also assumed cinematic rules I'm not using. That cancels out, more or less. Basically, Qoqa is likely one of the world's top field medics and trauma surgeons, Vinnie is decently fit, and both are lucky.

Also, you have no way of knowing it, but from the point of view of an NPC trying to kill Vinnie, I rolled poorly. Low damage rolls, no "1" to clip to vitals, etc. Meanwhile, Vinnie's player rolled very well, even without Luck. Swap our "dice luck" that night and Vinnie would be dead.

[apoc527]

Wow, The Company being run without cinematic/Action rules puts a whole new spin on things! Very cool.

I'd love to see a Pyramid article detailing "Modern Field Medicine" to do for higher TL medics what LTC3 did for the lower TL ones.

Thanks for the feedback and sorry about the [Kromm] tag. Won't happen again. ;-)