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Old 09-03-2018, 12:12 PM   #211
Daigoro
 
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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Most animals that are milked by humans are over about 40kgs. The largest bat is 1.2 kgs so using chicken breeding as a baseline (1600% improvement in desired characteristics over 40 years (at TL 7 and 8)) 160-800 years of selective breeding while maintaining a population of 100,000+ animals. Or Magic.
Sounds like sour batsmilk kimiz is on the menu then. Not sure how we could justify them wanting to breed the bats up to milking size in the first place though.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:19 AM   #212
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Knurlkyth
This is an older and larger dwarven city located higher in the mountains than humans care to live. The bulk of the city is in a column shaped area that extends down from one of the high valleys in the mountain range. This area is cooled by six dwarf made shafts that are continually filled with glacial meltwater. On the surface the upper gates to the city are surrounded by many acres of terraced fields made from dark coloured stone, an unseasonal mist hangs in the air.

This one got away from me a bit, crunch will follow.
Are you interested in riffing off this? Suggestion here.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:27 PM   #213
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

I would be more than happy to see the idea expanded on.
I'll turn this post into a proper crunch write up over the next few days, but here is what I have so far. [EDIT] post 227 [/EDIT]

Knurlkyth is an older Dwarven city dating back before the fall of the High Elves. While rich in many metals and minerals It was not founded in the pursuit of underground resources. It instead began its life as a training ground where Dwarves and Twilight Elves developed the foundations of several martial traditions.

A well developed network of aqueducts and tunnels brings water from several sources higher in the mountains. These feed into the six cooling shafts that largely surround the subterranean parts of the city. A percentage of the water flowing into the city is used to power the machinery that makes the residents lives easier, a central shaft houses elevators that move ore and rubble up from the depths. A second more isolated shaft draws the more pungent waste up from the city to an area of tunnels and rooms near the surface where this and other waste is processed.

Other notes
- timber and wood are sourced from the area around the lower entrance. There may be modifications to the waterways near there for transport.
- largish population.
- goats may replace sheep as the primary animal depending on dietary preference about Aramanth. I'm still looking into that.
- Some trade would help the city, grain would be the most likely desirable product.
- due to the extreme altitude the city may be hard to reach for humans.
- More specifics may come up in crunch. "Every farm is different" is something I work from in this thread.

(The actual crunch is illegible to anyone who isn't me at the moment)
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:42 PM   #214
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Coincidentally I just came across an article about Geothermal heating for crops at high altitudes

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2018...-can-grow-food
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:16 PM   #215
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The fresh cooler water sinks then warms as a result of contact with the comparatively hot rock of the depths.
What kind of temperature gradient is there in a non-geothermally active area? Thus, how deep would the shaft have to be? Would the dwarven forges be sufficient enough heat sources?

And the aquaponics mention in that article caught my eye- would dwarves be into raising carp or something?
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:21 PM   #216
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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What kind of temperature gradient is there in a non-geothermally active area? Thus, how deep would the shaft have to be? Would the dwarven forges be sufficient enough heat sources?

And the aquaponics mention in that article caught my eye- would dwarves be into raising carp or something?
I used some data I found for Germany that had an average increase of 3.5° C for every 100m of depth. The caveat with the data was it wasn't from a strictly alpine region. 100°C was reached at a depth of between 2.2 and 3.4 km deep.

The dwarven forges might serve as part of the air system given the need to vent all the carbon rich gases.

With regards to aquaponics it strikes me as a little bit anachronistic, but they do have the water temperature required for Tilapia. I might throw in a note with an aquaponic switch for the system.

[Edit] I also assumed the cooling process was happening over the course of decades or centuries.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:05 AM   #217
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[Edit] I also assumed the cooling process was happening over the course of decades or centuries.
Sorry, the cooling of...?
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:38 AM   #218
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Sorry, the cooling of...?
The general subterranean area, the rock surrounding the city and mines. Apologies for being unclear.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:50 AM   #219
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Ah, yeah, I was wondering about that. The quick read I just did on geothermal heat pumps were more about shallow-ish systems, which accumulate heat from solar irradiation, so I was wondering how quickly heat would be regenerated in a deep mountain heat pump as heat energy is fed to the crops. It's probably the kind of detail it's better to handwave though.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:30 AM   #220
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Regarding the aquaculture aspect. Nile Tilapia have been domesticated for nearly four millennia so they aren't as anachronistic as I first thought.

On a side note if the air going into a furnace is cooled considerably the increased oxygen density should make for a hotter fire.
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