10-19-2020, 04:52 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
The example on B33 makes me think of 2 concerns...
STATUS The simplest example is that you could take "Heir Status +2" [5] for the same price as "Status+1" [5] and operating at full power it gives all the benefits. The drawback appears to be that the GM can dictate how you spend your bonus points in the future (you MUST purchase the other half!) which could be inconvenient if you wanted to buy something else at that time with your CP. The benefit appears to be that you don't need to obtain IPJ (in-play justification, B291) like put in the work (eg bribe, service, combat, course, BG check) to convince an IAPORA (individual in a position of relative authority) to bestow it. IPJ seems pretty open-ended (you can quantify a bribe as a % of Starting Wealth bought with CP but we don't know how large a bribe) allowing a lot of GM flexibility in forbidding things. WEALTH It lets you get a 50% bonus to Starting Wealth by taking "Heir Comfortable Wealth" for 5 points... (B25: usually +100%) "Wealthy" gives +400% so "Heir Wealthy" would give +200% (twice the bonus Comfortable gives, you have TRIPLE the starting wealth) yet costs exactly the same? B291 also mentions "necessary bribes, taxes, etc" for buying wealth, in addition to actually having acquired the money equal to that level's SW. Money appears to operate like a 0-point meta-trait (advantage: CP you can trade for gear + disadvantage: enemies who covet), where the 1 CP per 10% SW that you trade for it is simply the convenience of being able to instantly re-arrange your points to varying degrees? |
10-19-2020, 05:46 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
Hmmm. I never thought of this before, but you're right. B33 says:
"Until then, you enjoy extra money, reaction modifiers, etc. equal to half what you stand to gain. For instance, if you stood to inherit +2 to Status [10] and Comfortable wealth [10], Heir would cost 10 points, and give +1 to Status and a 50% bonus to starting wealth." Think of the son of a Multimillionaire 2 [100]. He buys Heir: Multimillionaire 2 [50] and gets 5,000 times the starting wealth rather than just 100 times the starting wealth for Filthy Rich [50]. I always just assumed that if you were an Heir: Multimillionaire 2 [50], you got the benefit of what 50 CP of Wealth would give, i.e. 100 times starting wealth. And I think that's how the trait should be handled. Is there any reason it should give you a free x50 multiplier? |
10-19-2020, 05:47 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
I have often thought that Potential Advantages are designed a bit wrong.
In my games, I make them a perk, but they give NO other advantages beyond the right add points to eventually buy the actual advantage without further IGJ. If you want interim level benefits, in alignment with the principle you get what you pay for, buy it at the level you want the benefits. |
10-19-2020, 06:39 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
I've always assumed that you can only make the last level potential at least in regards to Wealth. Then again, it might be better to take it more gamist and say you get the effect of spending half the points; Status 2 as heir is no different in ability to Status 1. Filthy Rich is no different in ability to Very Wealthy (yes, it's rounding, you could round down instead to Wealthy or make a complicated guess at 25pts).
Actually, rereading it, Heir only seems like an issue for increasingly better traits. Doubling your points in Wealth is roughly x5 in what you get early on and more the higher it gets. TK does something similar; Doubling the level is quadrupling how much you can lift. I think the solution of Heir only applying to one level of Wealth solves that problem nicely to me. I do agree with the thought about 'wrongly designed'. It really does make more sense to be a 'pay for what you get currently now, pay for what you get later then'. Schrödinger’s Advantage does make sense as is, you effectively bought an Unusual Background to spend points at literally any point in time to buy an ability AND convert the UB into that ability. In fact, I used a similar idea in 3rd where you spend points ahead of time and you can at any point convert those points into an advantage of your choice with any unused points you have sitting around. |
10-19-2020, 08:36 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
Quote:
Hm... if you buy your wealth down to Struggling [-10] (-50% SW) and then take "Not Struggling" [10] (+50% SW) as "Heir Not Struggling" (ie "Heir Average") I guess that means you would enjoy +25% SW for 75% SW? The strange thing about GM saying "I can obligate you to pay a character point to upgrade your wealth when your dad dies" is there's usually a requirement for upgrading your wealth... B291 assuming "bribes aren't mandatory" I think means "taxes" somehow. IE you probably pay "death tax" if representing getting wealth via some kind of endeavour or relative? You are FORCED to buy a higher wealth level (goodbye bonus CP you wanted to increase your HP with!) per B517 if savings exceed Starting Wealth for that level, but this only seems to apply if you are working at a job that pays more than your Wealth indicates. That seems like in a way a kind of "point debt" because GM is giving you the benefit of Wealth for free (higher salary) but in exchange he is removing your freedom to spend bonus CP as you see fit. Except... you could always quit that job and go back to a lower-paying one to avoid that consequence and regain control of spending your bonus CP. |
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10-20-2020, 08:20 AM | #6 | ||||||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
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So you agreed to the parameters when you chose to take a potential advantage. This isn't the GM arbitrarily dictating things that happen to you; it's you agreeing to conditions. Quote:
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Don't think of Heir like this: Wealthy (Heir) [10] = Comfortable [10]. Think of it like this: Heir (Wealthy) [10] = 2.5 times starting wealth. Quote:
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Heir (Average Wealth) [5] Character begins with 3/4 starting wealth. Quote:
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To avoid having to pay character points for the upgrade, spend the cash immediately. You'll stay at your current Wealth level. Last edited by Stormcrow; 10-20-2020 at 08:24 AM. |
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10-20-2020, 10:17 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
Quote:
while Heir: Multimillionaire 2 [50] gives you $100,000,000, with $20,000,000 to spend on starting gear? That's really how this trait should work? Twenty million is better than four-hundred thousand. Last edited by JulianLW; 10-20-2020 at 10:20 AM. |
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10-20-2020, 10:50 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
Quote:
Someone with Filthy Rich [50] pays 50 points and never has to pay another character point. Someone with Heir (Multimillionaire 2) [50] still OWES 50 character points, and once the trigger is invoked the player will not be able to improve their character in any other way until the debt is paid off. 50 bonus character points is a LOT to earn. |
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10-20-2020, 02:04 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
Quote:
Now, sure, that might be a problem if the player had intended to just cheese the 'half benefit while heir' issue forever and wanted to buy other things while never paying for the less competitively priced half of the Wealth advantage. Somehow that scenario fails to fill me with concern for their inconvenience.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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10-20-2020, 03:02 PM | #10 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: drawback of Potential Advantage: Heir ?
Quote:
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Can a player find a loophole regarding the condition? Sure. Does that invalidate the "free" money? No. |
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Tags |
comfortable, heir, struggling, william headley, xing la |
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