Limitation: Fragile

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by cainith1978

I guess my main hang up is the effect losing IQ has on all the secondary traits and skills and spells ..... am i missing the forest because all i see are the trees ?

Penalties on rolls you weren't going to attempt anyway aren't high value.

[cainith1978]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Penalties on rolls you weren't going to attempt anyway aren't high value.

Are you saying a wizard would not cast spells in combat, that is the first thought that comes to mind but i would wager there are plenty of other rolls that would be affected that would be attempted while at the diminished IQ.

And will rolls , fright checks and so on

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by cainith1978

Are you saying a wizard would not cast spells in combat

Wizards are not going to be casting a lot of spells when at 0 or negative HP -- heals don't work well and very few other spells are worth casting. Failing a fright check hardly matters when you're going to be unconscious in a couple of seconds anyway. Ditto for will rolls to resist, etc.

[cainith1978]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Wizards are not going to be casting a lot of spells when at 0 or negative HP -- heals don't work well and very few other spells are worth casting. Failing a fright check hardly matters when you're going to be unconscious in a couple of seconds anyway. Ditto for will rolls to resist, etc.

I would disagree blocking spells are worth casting in combat as are defensive spells, buffs, and offence spells to eliminate the threat to your life.Failing a fright check at 0 or less hp could get you killed if you start vomiting while being attacked . Being able to make will rolls or resist spells in a combat scenario is always important regardless of your current hp and more important if your already injured.

I also feel like the are way to many scenarios where a spell caster could be injured and must still rely on their spell casting to stay alive.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by cainith1978

I would disagree blocking spells are worth casting in combat as are defensive spells, buffs, and offence spells to eliminate the threat to your life.

I have never seen any of that matter. By the time you're at 0 hp, it's almost always too late. There's two normal ways of dropping to 0 HP:

1) Fail a defense or get critted. You have to make two HT checks immediately (one for unconsciousness, one for knockdown). If you fail the first, you're out of combat. If you fail the second, you're prone and stunned and will probably be finished off before you get an action. If you make both rolls, you're still at -4. You might also have to worry about knockback.
2) Get nickled and dimed by small stuff. By the time you're reduced to 0 hp, you probably don't have enough energy left to cast significant spells anyway.

[cainith1978]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I have never seen any of that matter. By the time you're at 0 hp, it's almost always too late. There's two normal ways of dropping to 0 HP:

1) Fail a defense or get critted. You have to make two HT checks immediately (one for unconsciousness, one for knockdown). If you fail the first, you're out of combat. If you fail the second, you're prone and stunned and will probably be finished off before you get an action. If you make both rolls, you're still at -4. You might also have to worry about knockback.
2) Get nickled and dimed by small stuff. By the time you're reduced to 0 hp, you probably don't have enough energy left to cast significant spells anyway.

Shock penalties last for for 1 turn , high pain threshold negates those

cricts are rare

2 or 3 decent hits will reduce the average mage to zero hp you could be reduced to 0 hp in 3 turns i would be surprised if you spent all your fp in 3 turns in my experience a wizard will hold on to a small amount of fp for an emergency

Also there are spells like resist pain that allow to ignore damage effects

You should attempt to stay actively working towards survival for a spell caster that means casting spells

Would you say losing dex at 0 hp is irrelavent to a fighter?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by cainith1978

Would you say losing dex at 0 hp is irrelavent to a fighter?

Mostly yes. I might give it a -10% limitation instead of the -5% I'd allow for IQ because it's slightly more relevant.

[Bicorn]

I kind of have to wonder about the combats in your campaign if the characters apparently spend a significant portion of them at negative hp.

[Jeminai]

Originally Posted by Bicorn

I kind of have to wonder about the combats in your campaign if the characters apparently spend a significant portion of them at negative hp.

So I have played fantasy, Dungeon Fantasy, Star Wars, Supers, Vampire, Werewolf, and all sorts of games from TL 2 to TL 10 using the GURPS system.

In most combat scenes there is a winning side that puts the majority of the losing side into -HP territory, so yeah it happens a lot. Since I run games most of the time MANY of my NPC characters spend a significant portion of my combats at -hp because when they get really hurt they try to escape, not stay and fight to the death. They also don't just roll over and quit (orcs, and trolls don't tend to think they will receive mercy so there just is no point)

Also in a group of 4-6 PCs one of them getting hit by a gunshot or axe swing that puts them in negative hit point territory happens and then " a significant portion of combat" is now spent in the negative hit point range while their friends try to get them out of the scene. No rolls to stay alive or conscious are made until -hp so those characters are still going to engage and help their friends without being worthless lumps of meat (especially if they are warriors and have High Pain Threshold)

Even after some of my PCs reach -HP they make a roll to stay alive every round to do something to help their buddies. They are adventurers and have made characters that they expect will get into scrapes with orcs, goblins, wizards, storm troopers or all manner of nastiness. They bought Ht up to a 12 or 13 and maybe even bought a level of Fit so they are rolling on a 13-14 or less to remain in the fight.

I really don't think this is too outlandish, so I have to question why you are questioning the type of game I am playing or running when a significant portion of combat is spent in negative hp territory. The PCs in our games are not the "stay-at-home-never-get-hurt" kind of PCs. It does not take much to get in negative hp territory if you only have 10-12 hp. It takes a special kind of player to say "I am at half hp and I am no longer taking part in this combat". This player will likely not last long in our gaming group.


I question the type of game you are in if your PCs never get down into negative hp territory. If it is straight role playing with no combat, that is fine. but if you have challenging combats that open with ambushes...

In the GURPS system getting seriously hurt in the first 2-3 seconds can easily happen and the combat may last 10-12 rounds, so yeah a significant portion of combat may be in negative hp territory after an axe swing of 2d+2 from orc axe who spent FP to add extra damage just happened on the DR 4 chain mail wearing warrior. That's an average of 11 damage -4 DR +3 for cutting. If I roll an 8 or 9 then the 12 HP recipient is now at 0 or -1. That PC is not giving up, but the rest of that fight is him defending while his buddies help him get safe and healed by the priest or the medic with a potion.

If there is no time the characters are not outnumbered and fighting for their lives then when exactly are you ever planning on having any use for the weapon skills that your PCs have purchased, or the combat spells or any of the cool things that make RPGs hero worthy?

[Bicorn]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

I question the type of game you are in if your PCs never get down into negative hp territory. If it is straight role playing with no combat, that is fine. but if you have challenging combats that open with ambushes...

Oh, they do get into negative hp plenty of times. But usually at that point the fight is either already over or will be in a couple of turns.