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Old 04-13-2017, 12:21 PM   #31
Flyndaran
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Ultratech] Citizen-grade cyberware?

No one would ask if you'd like to be roboticised.

They would ask if you'd like to have that painful body part fixed.

100% guaranteed safe better than new replacement of the joints that ache every day or even every moment of the day, just replacing a failing or just weak heart, or lungs, or brittle bones, etc.

Brain in a box cyborgs will always be unusual and more of a last ditch effort than routine.
But via incremental replacements, many will eventually get near there anyway.
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Last edited by Flyndaran; 04-13-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:29 PM   #32
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: [Ultratech] Citizen-grade cyberware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
No one would ask if you'd like to be roboticised.

They would ask if you'd like to have that painful body part fixed.

100% guaranteed safe better than new replacement of the joints that ache every day or even every moment of the day, just replacing a failing or just weak heart, or lungs, or brittle bones, etc.

Brain in a box cyborgs will always be unusual and more of a last ditch effort than routine.
But via incremental replacements, many will eventually get near there anyway.
Be that as it may, whether or not it is "dysfunctional" is less relevant for narrative purposes then whether the people of such a time think it dysfunctional.

It seems to me that both you and evileeyeore are spending a lot of time defending a position I have not attacked or indeed given any opinion on other then to say that people's opinions during the hypothetical time period when such technology is available is relevant.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:47 PM   #33
Flyndaran
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Default Re: [Ultratech] Citizen-grade cyberware?

I think it might be a semantic issue. We're using language that the other(s) see as more "emotional" than intended.

Clinically, a desire to remove healthy body parts is a body dysphoria and itself usually indicative of a deeper psychological issue. But whether it alone would count as a disorder when better than flesh alternatives exist, is something for future psychologists to deal with.

I would hope all extreme elective/cosmetic surgeries would require some vetting for mental health problems. But who are we to argue with those hypothetical professionals that deem such hypothetical purposeful amputees sane?
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:31 PM   #34
Pragmatic
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Default Re: [Ultratech] Citizen-grade cyberware?

Adding in where I come from, asking the question.

The question arose because I was reading the Star Carrier series (basically, genetics, robotics, nanotech, and artificial intelligence are altering the human race, and some alien civilization opposes it). And I started wondering how my "thought exercise" sci-fi society (i.e., plagiarizing every cool idea I come across in sci-fi books :-) would handle it.

First thing would be, as a flaw (or not?), they're morphochauvinsts. They're also paranoid xenophiles (i.e., they embrace the unusual, but they're cautious as heck). Combined, this means that, while they welcome new species with no more caution than they treat anyone else, they tend to dislike large deviations from the norm. So someone sporting obvious cyber enhancements (say, replacement cybernetic eyes) would be treated with reaction penalties. But a cybernetic arm (with "required secondary powers" to make its extra strength plausible), covered in a layer of faux flesh to look "natural," would not.

So mostly internal stuff. Nanocomputer (with "life skills" AI), the mentioned biomedical reader, comm device, even linking cables to computers (if not wireless), all okay.

I don't imagine that they'd welcome authoritarian "Big Brother" stuff, like the government being able to tap into their nanocomputers. I think they'd, rather, see it as providing the tools (education and a Fifth Wave cyber/AI suite, for instance) to enough people so that if someone has the ability and the ambition, they can do great good for society.
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: [Ultratech] Citizen-grade cyberware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
Adding in where I come from, asking the question.

The question arose because I was reading the Star Carrier series (basically, genetics, robotics, nanotech, and artificial intelligence are altering the human race, and some alien civilization opposes it). And I started wondering how my "thought exercise" sci-fi society (i.e., plagiarizing every cool idea I come across in sci-fi books :-) would handle it.

First thing would be, as a flaw (or not?), they're morphochauvinsts. They're also paranoid xenophiles (i.e., they embrace the unusual, but they're cautious as heck). Combined, this means that, while they welcome new species with no more caution than they treat anyone else, they tend to dislike large deviations from the norm. So someone sporting obvious cyber enhancements (say, replacement cybernetic eyes) would be treated with reaction penalties. But a cybernetic arm (with "required secondary powers" to make its extra strength plausible), covered in a layer of faux flesh to look "natural," would not.

So mostly internal stuff. Nanocomputer (with "life skills" AI), the mentioned biomedical reader, comm device, even linking cables to computers (if not wireless), all okay.

I don't imagine that they'd welcome authoritarian "Big Brother" stuff, like the government being able to tap into their nanocomputers. I think they'd, rather, see it as providing the tools (education and a Fifth Wave cyber/AI suite, for instance) to enough people so that if someone has the ability and the ambition, they can do great good for society.
Yea, I believe that even with a weird outlook your looking at 'adopted by those with failing normal parts' first and foremost and damn the consequences: cause I want walking to not hurt anymore. Those people might get reaction penalties, but they won't care (the same way early retiree vacationers don't care about wearing a massive tilly hat and Hawaiian shirt to Madrid- they aren't trying to impress anyone, don't care what your opinion is, and its comfy)

Then you'll have the 'young injury' folk, who'll say 'well I don't WANT to replace my knee, but I just destroyed it in that motorcycle accident, and I would prefer to deal with a wayward glance or two and go for the tried tested and true unnatural looking retiree leg then get a sub-performing less tested look-alike'.

From there you get the edge case people going 'why do early retireess get to enjoy running sustained at 30km/hr with there Digitigrade shock absorbing metal legs, what if I don't want to wait until my knees are degrading to get the upgrade'- but by this point such upgrades are starting to become quite standard, they might get some wayward glances 'he looks so young, I wonder what accident took his knee', but ultimately no more stigma than someone with an obvious prosthetic or cane today.

Then in a few more years the stigma virtually vanishes, and much like how I can walk through the office and expect to see at least one person with knuckle tattoos that say 'I luv typn' or similar, it just carries no real stigma beyond a sidelong glance or two.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: [Ultratech] Citizen-grade cyberware?

Well, I'd consider getting cybernetics if the following conditions are met:

1) Manageable surgery risk (each person has their own threshold).
2) Manageable maintenance requirements (Both in "fuel cost" and time spend getting someone to tinker with my cyberware. If I have to buy 500 euros worth of batteries every month, I'll pass. If maintenance is more than a few hours once a month, I'll pass)
3) Good enough advantages for cybertech compared to regular things.

A chip that acts as an ID card, Credit Card, and every official documents I might want to show officials (driver's license, security clearances, and so on) I would definitely get since I won't get in trouble with the police because I forgot my driver's license at home or couldn't show my ID card because I forgot it, and a credit card that can't be stolen from me is good too. Else, I'll do the calculations on a case by case basis based on what utility and risks/annoyances cybertech will bring me.
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