Machine Extra Effort

[Cyrilin]

'Lo, folks. Had a bit of a question.

One of my players wants to make an android character that lacks FP entirely. He does not want to lose access to extra effort though and hence wants to buy an energy reserve that can power extra effort.

Does he only need to buy that energy reserve or does he also need a perk for a rule exception to be able to use it in the first place on top of that?

Thanks in advance.

[vierasmarius]

On the one hand he's losing the free 10+ FP that biological characters get. On the other hand he gets much of the benefit of FP while being immune to the fatigue loss that normal characters face. You could view the Extra Effort options as a set of improved stats (bonus lifting/striking ST, Move, etc) with Costs ER. Overall, I think it's a net gain and is appropriate to charge a perk for (if not a larger Unusual Background).

[Nereidalbel]

This seems somewhat balanced if the ER is somehow vulnerable to attack, as the FP biological beings possess is. Otherwise, yeah, some sort of charge beyond the cost of ER is in order.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

This seems somewhat balanced if the ER is somehow vulnerable to attack, as the FP biological beings possess is. Otherwise, yeah, some sort of charge beyond the cost of ER is in order.

Perhaps Electrical and EMP attacks have a chance (failed HT roll?) to deplete the ER, in addition to their normal effects.

[Sarge]

Even though machines don't have FP, I've never understood why they can't use Extra Effort.

I'd think that a machine could override its governor/safety protocol and then use Extra Effort. Of course, since this is pushing the machine past its physical limits, it would have to expend HP instead of FP. This would represent extra wear & tear and/or physical damage caused by pushing past its structural limits.

A high price to pay for using Extra Effort, especially if the machine doesn't have any kind of self-healing mechanism, but that's the price you pay for going to "maximum military power", or whatever want to call it.

[GodBeastX]

Just noting that in the Powers book it distinctly says the Ebergy Reserve is separate from Fatigue Points. To quote:

However, an ER isn’t the same as FP. Only associated powers can
deplete it. Fatigue Attacks, missed sleep, and so on don’t sap it, and
other powers, wild abilities, and ordinary extra effort can’t tap it.

Furthermore, depleting an ER causes none of the effects of going below
1/3 FP – and having a full ER doesn’t protect against those effects.
An ER recharges by one point every 10 minutes, independent of rest.
You can recover FP at the same time if you rest. Factors that alter FP
recovery generally have no effect on ER recharge rate.

So by the rules you wouldn't get charged a "Rules Exemption" perk.

HOWEVER, I guess unusual background could be charged.



As for talk of balance, I'll speak about it this way:

The above quote means that even normal people who aren't machines can get energy reserve without needing rule exception for it to be different than fatigue.

Now, let's say I had 10 HT and was a machine that didn't tire out etc. To get the same effect with ER I'd have to pay 30 points for 10 point of extra effort.

So, is not tiring out from running and the couple FP from combat worth 30 points? Considering my character paid for doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, immunity to metabolic hazards and other fatigue draining features already. Running and combat is about what's left.

Needing that fatigue to be drained from surges and such seems overly malicious to the points being spent.




And how I was explaining it in Psuedo-science (It's an anime campaign), it's basically a capacitor that can be discharged to overclock the system for bursts of energy, but it has to recharge.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Even though machines don't have FP, I've never understood why they can't use Extra Effort.

I'd think that a machine could override its governor/safety protocol and then use Extra Effort. Of course, since this is pushing the machine past its physical limits, it would have to expend HP instead of FP. This would represent extra wear & tear and/or physical damage caused by pushing past its structural limits.

A high price to pay for using Extra Effort, especially if the machine doesn't have any kind of self-healing mechanism, but that's the price you pay for going to "maximum military power", or whatever want to call it.

You know, what's how I always thought about it too. Like, I can push my car harder than it's supposed to go, I just risk throwing a rod or blowing the head gasket. But it can be done.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

So by the rules you wouldn't get charged a "Rules Exemption" perk.

The text you quoted specifically mentions that ER cannot be used to power Extra Effort, meaning a machine with ER but no FP normally couldn't use that option. That's a good indication that it should require at least a perk.

[GodBeastX]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

The text you quoted specifically mentions that ER cannot be used to power Extra Effort, meaning a machine with ER but no FP normally couldn't use that option. That's a good indication that it should require at least a perk.

Actually no, because if you read the whole section of Energy Reserves you'll find this:

Stunts Only: Your ER is only useful for extra effort and stunts. It can’t
pay the FP costs for normal ability use. This is incompatible with
Abilities Only. -10%.

Unless I'm reading extra effort wrong here...

[NineDaysDead]

GURPS Zombies page 67:

Extra Effort Costs HT

Prerequisite: No Fatigue (below).

Rarely, a construct or an undead zombie without an FP score can still “redline” itself, pushing past its normal limits at the cost of structural integrity. This feature allows such creatures to use extra effort by spending HT instead of FP. Lost HT can only be restored via Repairs (p. B484); each HT point restored is a separate major repair. For appropriate repair skills, see Maintenance (p. 62)