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Old 08-21-2013, 10:16 PM   #11
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

Nothing in the description of Regeneration says that it overrides the other rules about FP you can't regenerate. The quotes I supplied from sample hazards are quite explicit about additional requirements beyond simple FP gain to regain those lost FP. It seems to me to be far less "explicit" of an interpretation to assume that Regen somehow does supercede all those rules than not to assume that it does, given the absence of any such statements in the descriptions in Powers. I think you're engaging in wishful thinking here.

But if you're the player, the person you need to ask is your GM.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:26 PM   #12
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Nothing in the description of Regeneration says that it overrides the other rules about FP you can't regenerate. The quotes I supplied from sample hazards are quite explicit about additional requirements beyond simple FP gain to regain those lost FP. It seems to me to be far less "explicit" of an interpretation to assume that Regen somehow does supercede all those rules than not to assume that it does, given the absence of any such statements in the descriptions in Powers. I think you're engaging in wishful thinking here.

But if you're the player, the person you need to ask is your GM.
The way the RAW reads, the only way I can see Regeneration bypassing these needs is with a Cosmic enhancement. At that point, it's cheaper to buy Doesn't Eat and Doesn't Sleep.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:48 AM   #13
Pomphis
 
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

IMO: in law the more specific rule usually trumps the more general, so the restrictions for fatigue recovery cited by Anaraxes would apply. In addition, in 4e we basically buy effects and pay CPs for them. Doesn´t Sleep is an advantage with a fixed cost, so that´s what one should buy for this effect, regardless of how it is decribed (in other words, even if your Regeneration (Magical-10%) is the reason that you don´t need sleep, you should still buy Doesn´t Sleep, though in this example with Magical-10%).
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:28 AM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

First we have the analogy of HP Regeneration. The thing there is that natural Recovery of lost HP and Regeneration of lost HP are separate and unrelated processes.

One takes place daily (or twice daily if you have VR Healing) and can be negated by poor conditions such as lack or rest.

I have never seen anywhere that Regeneration of HP is conditional in any way. I'm also fairly sure that it can occur in addition to natural Recovery and both can ex9st alongside medical treatment.

So if I were wearing my GM hat I would say based o the above precedent that FP Regeneration is not an enhancement of natural FP Recovery but rather a different and separate process that lacks the restrictions of natural Recovery.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

My own analysis originally led me to concur with Fred. Natural recovery and Regeneration as separate processes such that exclusion from one does not imply exclusion from the other.

Ya'll have made some good points though. I remain conflicted.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

Restoration of Cyclic-damaged HP is supended while undergoing Cycling damage unless you get rid of Cyclic somehow. Restoration of FP is suspended for FPs with Hazard unless you meet the condition for recovering from the Hazard.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:06 AM   #17
Pomphis
 
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
So if I were wearing my GM hat I would say based o the above precedent that FP Regeneration is not an enhancement of natural FP Recovery but rather a different and separate process that lacks the restrictions of natural Recovery.
While I understand the logic, I still believe that getting Doesn´t Sleep, Doesn´t Eat, and Temperature Tolerance for free is too much, and that Powers would have said so if that had been intended.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:06 AM   #18
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
My own analysis originally led me to concur with Fred. Natural recovery and Regeneration as separate processes such that exclusion from one does not imply exclusion from the other.

Ya'll have made some good points though. I remain conflicted.
Check the RAW for FP regeneration. It specifically states that it follows all the other rules for FP recovery, but can occur much, much faster.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:55 PM   #19
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomphis View Post
While I understand the logic, I still believe that getting Doesn´t Sleep, Doesn´t Eat, and Temperature Tolerance for free is too much, and that Powers would have said so if that had been intended.
I agree. As an analogy, regular Regen doesn't let you regrow limbs no matter how high a level you buy; you still have to buy Regrowth.

And there's explicit text noting that Regrowth is faster in conjunction with Regen, as well as explicit text in Regen that says Regrowth is necessary to regrow limbs and not just heal wounds. That's not automatic given enough HP increase. It's a separate Advantage, and rules-wise it's Regrowth itself that allows Regen to Regrow faster. There's no similar rule in the Hazards, cold section that says "you can only regain this lost FP if you're warm -- or if you have Regen (FP), the Recover Energy spell, or some other means of regenerating FP faster than normal."

This is a good example of the "is GURPS effect-based?" debate. Regen (FP) gets you only the effects it says it has. That's distinct from the character concept here, which is "guy with boundless energy, never gets tired", or perhaps "guy that's endless enduring, unstoppable". That concept might even have been sparked by contemplating Regen (FP) as a cool power. But, the extrapolation about other nifty things Enduring Energetic Guy can do -- run fast, tolerate cold -- that are a good fit for the concept still don't come with Regen itself for free. You buy the extra Move and Temperature Tolerance if you want them. The justification for the extra running Move might be "doesn't get tired", but just having a good reason to buy an ability doesn't get you the ability. You still have to buy it.

(This is also one reason some GMs don't care about CP levels for characters. They'd rather have the fully fleshed-out characters with their logically deduced abilities than worry about strict CP equality, and not have to drop out some logical consequence because they had to squeeze ten points out of the build. Other groups are more concerned about preserving a level of build fairness.)
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #20
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Regeneration (FP only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
There's no similar rule in the Hazards, cold section that says "you can only regain this lost FP if you're warm -- or if you have Regen (FP), the Recover Energy spell, or some other means of regenerating FP faster than normal."
Sure there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B430
Recovery of FP or
HP lost to cold requires adequate shel-
ter and a heat source (flame, electric
heat, body warmth, etc.).
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