Snickersnee and a scary clown boss question

[BadToast]

This is a rather rare scenario... so of course it came up in our third game of munchkin quest and I'd like some thoughts on the validity of it.

Scenario: A level 10 munchkin walks into the entrance with a snickersnee equipped (weapon that automatically defeats scary clowns). Draws monster card... which happens to be the scary clowns. So it becomes a level 20 scary clowns boss.

The main question: Does this scenario give the munchkin an automatic win?

The rules clearly state that the boss always fights, there's no changing or bypassing, etc., however based on the wording this seems like it's not bypassing but is actually fighting and defeating the boss... automatically. We ruled that the munchkin got the win, but would like to hear an official ruling on this case.

A related question: What is the exact timing of automatic wins? (of which I believe this would be one of the very rare examples). Specifically, can other munchkins interrupt an automatic win with wondering monsters, dispelling, etc.?

A munchkin can always wander in monsters, but I believe the automatic win would happen first. Basically, we chose to treat an automatic win as if dice already have been rolled in combat. In this particular "clown-boss" case, the munchkin would win the game already so wandering in monsters afterward for a future combat is pointless. Another way to phrase this question is: does a wandering monster interrupt the normal post combat leveling/looting?

[Progmode]

Originally Posted by BadToast

This is a rather rare scenario... so of course it came up in our third game of munchkin quest and I'd like some thoughts on the validity of it.

Scenario: A level 10 munchkin walks into the entrance with a snickersnee equipped (weapon that automatically defeats scary clowns). Draws monster card... which happens to be the scary clowns. So it becomes a level 20 scary clowns boss.

The main question: Does this scenario give the munchkin an automatic win?

I'd say this is certainly a way of "bypassing" the combat and, as such, the power of the Snickersnee does not apply to a Boss monster.

Originally Posted by BadToast

A related question: What is the exact timing of automatic wins? (of which I believe this would be one of the very rare examples). Specifically, can other munchkins interrupt an automatic win with wondering monsters, dispelling, etc.?

According to the rules:

Originally Posted by The Rules, Page 8

If all the monsters, or all the munchkins, are removed from the room, the combat is over. All “usable once only” cards are returned to their owners. All monster enhancer cards stay with the monster they were played on.

So, combat ends as soon as all the monsters or munchkins are gone from the room. Automatic kills remove monsters from the combat, so by a strict reading of the rules, if you face the Scary Clowns with the Snickersnee, they're gone, and the combat ends almost instantly.

Originally Posted by BadToast

A munchkin can always wander in monsters, but I believe the automatic win would happen first. Basically, we chose to treat an automatic win as if dice already have been rolled in combat. In this particular "clown-boss" case, the munchkin would win the game already so wandering in monsters afterward for a future combat is pointless. Another way to phrase this question is: does a wandering monster interrupt the normal post combat leveling/looting?

As I said above, according to the rules, combat ends when all the Munchkins or all the monsters are gone from the room. With automatic kills, there is no die roll (meaning no 2.6 second rule), the monster is just gone from the combat.

However, I don't think this is the intent, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if someone with the authority to rule came and said that the 2.6 second rule does still apply to combats that have no monsters due to auto-kills and their ilk.

[O'Keefe]

The Snickersnee does automatically defeat the Clowns boss, but you still have to do the 2.6 second thing, so another monster could be added to the fight before it was technically over.

[Progmode]

Originally Posted by O'Keefe

The Snickersnee does automatically defeat the Clowns boss,

This surprises me. So can you use Dispel Monster to get rid of a Boss monster?

Originally Posted by O'Keefe

but you still have to do the 2.6 second thing, so another monster could be added to the fight before it was technically over.

This is what I expected.

[BadToast]

Originally Posted by Progmode

This surprises me. So can you use Dispel Monster to get rid of a Boss monster?

I'd assume that dispelling would go against the rules of bypassing or moving a boss.

On the off chance that it is allowed, I would see it as a preventative measure only, i.e., it wouldn't give the win. The munchkin would have to re-fight another boss.

[Progmode]

Originally Posted by BadToast

I'd assume that dispelling would go against the rules of bypassing or moving a boss.

On the off chance that it is allowed, I would see it as a preventative measure only, i.e., it wouldn't give the win. The munchkin would have to re-fight another boss.

I would assume that's correct. I just don't like the fact that there's anyway to get out of rolling dice against the level 20 Boss monster. Even if that way requires that you have the right item and the right Boss monster, it just shouldn't be possible.

I don't often argue against the official ruling, but this one rubs me the wrong way.

[mib2932]

Originally Posted by BadToast

I'd assume that dispelling would go against the rules of bypassing or moving a boss.

From the Boss Monster section of the rules (p11):

No card or power will let you bypass this combat! The Boss ignores any rules, cards, or powers that would take it out of the Entrance. It can never be controlled and will never ignore a Level 10 munchkin for any reason, even if its card says it will. It always fights.

[RevBob]

And in this case, the Boss isn't being moved out of the Entrance, it's not being controlled, and it's not ignoring the Munchkin. It's putting up a fight, but being automatically defeated.

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by Progmode

I would assume that's correct. I just don't like the fact that there's anyway to get out of rolling dice against the level 20 Boss monster. Even if that way requires that you have the right item and the right Boss monster, it just shouldn't be possible.

What if you're fighting at an effective level of, say, 40 - and your opponents have nothing to beef the monster with? No point rolling the dice for that one....

[Progmode]

Originally Posted by RevBob

What if you're fighting at an effective level of, say, 40 - and your opponents have nothing to beef the monster with? No point rolling the dice for that one....

You know very well what I meant, and your example is not at all the same thing.