Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2014, 09:23 AM   #31
Keiko
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalyse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
And I already answered those points and pointed out where I disagree with him. Mostly it boils down to either missing about half of what I said (well my responses do tend to be lengthy, obscuring and confusing details) or failing to actually explain where I was wrong in a manner I can understand. I compared a zombie plague or apocalypse to a similar level of rabies infected animals; going to the store would be a lot different in a world where packs of rabid dogs were a frequent occurrence. It would take some monumental stupidity to allow things to get "that bad", but if there is one thing we humans have... its stupid!

This assumes your later comments were a disbelief that a "zombie plague" or "zombie apocalypse" scenario could come about without some extreme plot contrivances. History is full of things that read like plot contrivances, so I am willing to allow a few while still treating a scenario as "plausible". The "human element" is a pretty huge thing in zombie scenarios, and we know people behave in a stupid manner. In the "zombies come from an infection" scenario, imagine how it would work if the condition was caused by a somewhat slow showing STI? Talk about people not behaving logically...
One of the Dead Worlds in All Flesh Must be Eaten went with the zombie infection as an AIDs like STD. It was an interesting scenario.

World War Z method of having it transmitted via infected bootleg transplant organs was interesting too. Having infections just pop up randomly across the world could cause some confusion and might get out of hand as cover ups and misinformation slowed response. There were flare up that were initially settled quickly as suggested but due to bureacracy and other issues they started getting out of hand and rather than reveal the crisis, the governments involved chose to try and keep it quiet to avoid panic (and maintain a semblance of competence) and things went pear shaped. I can see something like that happening in the real world.
Keiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 09:27 AM   #32
Keiko
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Getting creative with zombies is almost a must for an RPG in 2014. To be blunt, GURPS Zombies covers the tired tropes – slow, brain-eating, infectious, rotting undead that congregate in hordes that can't be defeated without headshots – only because it had to cover such zombies to sell the book. We have Romero and his rabid fans to thank for that (talk about shambling hordes . . .). But that's boring. I'd strongly recommend almost anything else: post-nuclear-apocalypse ghouls that emit radiation (like Fallout's glowing ones), living people made crazy by a meme (see Pontypool), the gates of Hell thrown open to disgorge Judgment's legions, etc. . . . not to mention endless mutants, variants, and bosses, in the spirit of Left 4 Dead, Killing Floor, and other FPS games. Anyway, Zombies covers the whole gamut.
Speaking as one of the "Shambling hordes" ("Braaaaiiinnsss...") I see nothing wrong with an appreciation of the classics. The above is a bit insulting. I can understand having different tastes but there's no call to be insulting. It makes me regret buying the book to see my taste held up for ridicule by the writer who was "forced" to acknowledge them and apparently considers even including them a detriment to the product.

Last edited by Keiko; 05-19-2014 at 09:31 AM.
Keiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 10:04 AM   #33
Otaku
 
Otaku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalyse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
One of the Dead Worlds in All Flesh Must be Eaten went with the zombie infection as an AIDs like STD. It was an interesting scenario.

World War Z method of having it transmitted via infected bootleg transplant organs was interesting too. Having infections just pop up randomly across the world could cause some confusion and might get out of hand as cover ups and misinformation slowed response. There were flare up that were initially settled quickly as suggested but due to bureacracy and other issues they started getting out of hand and rather than reveal the crisis, the governments involved chose to try and keep it quiet to avoid panic (and maintain a semblance of competence) and things went pear shaped. I can see something like that happening in the real world.
Yeah, though World War Z (and I'll emphasize again that I mean the book) is by no means something utterly original, I found it to be a good read and thought the classic zombie tropes they kept were handled fairly well while the ones that inverted/subverted/etc. also seemed to work very well.

Granted, WWZ is also one of the few "zombie" books I have read: I kind of have a love/hate/kill it with fire* relationship with zombies so I can't stand watching most zombie films but find them interesting to read about or experience in limited quantities. For example when it comes to video games, I do not play Resident Evil games but absolutely love The Typing of the Dead, enjoy using Lord Raptor in Darkstalkers, etc.

*I am aware that trying to kill zombies with fire can be a very bad idea depending on the circumstances and setting. ;)
__________________
My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :)

Last edited by Otaku; 05-19-2014 at 10:33 AM.
Otaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 10:40 AM   #34
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiko View Post

Speaking as one of the "Shambling hordes" ("Braaaaiiinnsss...") I see nothing wrong with an appreciation of the classics. The above is a bit insulting. I can understand having different tastes but there's no call to be insulting. It makes me regret buying the book to see my taste held up for ridicule by the writer who was "forced" to acknowledge them and apparently considers even including them a detriment to the product.
Sorry – no insult or ridicule was intended! It's just very hard, as a writer, to present anything new in the world of zombies. You pretty much have to cover the old to get people even to look at the new, which is a market reality. The fact that this is so indicates that the "shambling hordes" approach is clearly the frontrunner and winner . . . so if anything, I'm acknowledging that I am the ridiculous odd man out. Still, as a writer and a zombie fan, I do insist on speaking my mind and defending my view of the genre's status quo. :)
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 10:58 AM   #35
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

My previous post was an apology. This one is separate because it's more of an explanation:

In the zombie (sub-)genre, the classic model commonly held to be embodied by George A. Romero's work – slow undead who attack in hordes, eat people, and propagate infection – is by far the best-known one, popular with fans of zombie fiction. The problem is that it's so popular that it has become the victim of its own success . . . I've seen a dozen people on these and other forums write words to the effect of, "I'm so tired of zombies!" I've and heard many a friend utter the same thing. A little interrogation reveals that most of these people mean that they're tired of the tried-and-true approach of "traditional" zombie stories.

Consequently, the work of a writer of material on zombies will fall on an axis that has "Writing about the classics, which appeals to the safe market of dyed-in-the-wool zombie fans" at one end, and "Writing about new stuff, which might just bring in new fans" at the other. Where you end up on the axis depends on (1) how engaging you find those poles, and (2) your marketing goals. I was trying to reach "all gamers," so I went right down the middle. However, I do find the traditional stuff less fun to write about, because there's less room for innovation. I did not say that or even hint at it in GURPS Zombies, but around the water cooler (i.e., here), I'll express my opinion because – like everybody else – I do have one I'd like to share.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 11:03 AM   #36
Keiko
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Sorry – no insult or ridicule was intended! It's just very hard, as a writer, to present anything new in the world of zombies. You pretty much have to cover the old to get people even to look at the new, which is a market reality. The fact that this is so indicates that the "shambling hordes" approach is clearly the frontrunner and winner . . . so if anything, I'm acknowledging that I am the ridiculous odd man out. Still, as a writer and a zombie fan, I do insist on speaking my mind and defending my view of the genre's status quo. :)
All right. There isn't really any tone in the medium so perhaps I took your post too personally. And you have every right to express your opinion. Thank you for taking the time to address my concerns.
Keiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 11:16 AM   #37
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiko View Post

There isn't really any tone in the medium so perhaps I took your post too personally.
The Internet doesn't usefully convey subtleties such as humor, irony, and sarcasm*; accents almost all writing with one or more of pedantry, pompousness, ridicule, and stridency; and turns mere ponderings into opinions and actual opinions into screaming proclamations, and thus discussions into debates and debates into arguments. Anyway, my intention was not to shout down or attack anybody, but to offer insight into my motivations for including so much nontraditional zombie lore in my book, and to offer alternatives.

* Writing certainly can, but the hasty, character-limited squibs found on forums and in messaging media rarely offer the necessary context.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 01:14 PM   #38
Otaku
 
Otaku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
The Internet doesn't usefully convey subtleties such as humor, irony, and sarcasm*; accents almost all writing with one or more of pedantry, pompousness, ridicule, and stridency; and turns mere ponderings into opinions and actual opinions into screaming proclamations, and thus discussions into debates and debates into arguments. Anyway, my intention was not to shout down or attack anybody, but to offer insight into my motivations for including so much nontraditional zombie lore in my book, and to offer alternatives.

* Writing certainly can, but the hasty, character-limited squibs found on forums and in messaging media rarely offer the necessary context.
Without the "zombie" bit, that might make an excellent signature for those of us prone to posts that regularly carry a tone of pedantry, pompousness, ridicule, and/or stridency or else have the weight of our words alternately exaggerated or diminished because of the medium.

Given how often I feel like I am trying to reason with zombies or wake up to discover I have been reasoning as a zombie (>_<) my commenting on it also seems strangely on topic. ;)
__________________
My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :)
Otaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 03:20 PM   #39
The Colonel
 
The Colonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Given how often I feel like I am trying to reason with zombies or wake up to discover I have been reasoning as a zombie (>_<) my commenting on it also seems strangely on topic. ;)
My cousin once built a "zombie rehab centre" during a game of Zombies out of her kill pile and unused tiles, thus pre-empting Shaun of the Dead by several years ... and possibly Hershell's barn as well, I'm not sure.
The Colonel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 05:38 PM   #40
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse

One thing that may give your players pause is if the zombies develop (or are drones controlled by) a hive mind. Suddenly, even the lone shambler who is typically just to be avoided is the eyes and ears of an even greater threat. The shambling zombies are mere cannon fodder, but once they reach a minimum number of animated, they start to use rudimentary tactics, blocking paths in order to herd the living who are avoiding them into an ambush. Even more zombies in the horde may get a few "enhanced" zombies, which could be professional athletes to infected soldiers who retain their skills.

What irks me the most is the "it can only be spread by bite; oh, by the way, the whole world goes to hell from ground zero in under a day" you see in a lot of zombie fiction. That implies simultaneous outbreaks in every major metro area, which means someone released them into the "wild". It may be a plot point to find the org that released them.
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
zombie apocalipse, zombies

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.