03-18-2019, 03:36 PM | #11 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
While most of the assistance here remains subtle, the divineThat said, a lot of the things you mentioned above fit, or can fit, pretty easily in the 'semi-plausibly deniable miracle' category of the Neutral reaction level. For instance, Gunslinger and Combat Reflexes are pretty well covered under "a bonus to a roll". Having your skin work like medium plate wouldn't be very subtle, but something that manifests as attacks catching at a bad angle on your kit and glancing off could work. You'd probably be sticking on some modifiers to produce a good representation of that! Dark vision doesn't perfectly hit the page 5 labels but could fairly be called "a bit of divine aid with a mundane problem" and isn't directly observable by anybody else. Quote:
Direct damage prayers that work on things that aren't supernatural evil isn't really the style that stock Divine Favor is going for. That doesn't mean you can't use it with them just fine, but you should expect to need to make some tweaks to flavor factors like the page-5 constraints.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. Last edited by Ulzgoroth; 03-18-2019 at 03:40 PM. |
||
03-18-2019, 03:37 PM | #12 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
Note that several comparable advantages (including DR 5, albeit with limitations) are included among the Neutral level of reactions in Divine Favor, so clearly the book does consider them "minor blessings". Quote:
|
||
03-18-2019, 08:26 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
That is missing the point which is "My hands burst into flames and I punch the ruffian" is too flashy for those guidelines no matter how little damage they do. If you are using them then any miracles you design with low point values should also be relatively inobvious.
|
03-18-2019, 11:52 PM | #14 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
"Soul Fire" Innate Attack (Toxic) 6d6 (Accessibility (Only Affects Evil), -20%; Contact Agent, -30%; Divine, -10%; Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%; No Signature, +20%; Onset, 1 minute, -10%) [5] That would be subtle and deadly. (Note, Onset requires one of Blood Agent, Contact Agent, Follow-Up, Malediction, or Respiratory Agent.) |
|
03-20-2019, 06:44 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Here's how I see it:
What constitutes minor or major miracles depends on the campaign. In a High Fantasy setting where the Gods Walk Among Us, "minor" or subtle miracles might be someone's hands bursting into flames and dealing followup burning damage. In a realistic Modern Day campaign, that would be quite miraculous. If the purpose of the GM is to replace normal clerical magic with Divine Favor, then the miracles should scale with what could have been done with spells. Edit: The problem with this system as a whole is that using a Learned Prayer costs the PC almost nothing: It doesn't take die rolls, fatigue, works in Low/No Mana zones, and in Low Sanctity. They only fail in areas of No Sanctity, if I remember correctly. I pretty much believe you should NOT use Learned Prayer for "battle prayers" -- direct damage prayers against anything other than a very narrowly defined set of enemies, or general protection prayers (DR, extra HP or FP, or instant Healing) unless you are prepared for a character that can continuously throw magical damage without consequences, or easily survive encounters that should have been challenging. Last edited by nick_coffin; 03-20-2019 at 08:21 AM. |
03-20-2019, 11:54 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
Your job is to protect Nature. There are certain situations and foes that the Great Spirit of Nature will help you with:
Other enemies or situations do not directly trigger the Great Spirit of Nature to grant you the ability to do direct harm. Other utility type spells are generally allowed because they allow you to further your Mission. I agree that druids need offensive capabilities, but Nature will not step in unless the attacker is an Enemy of Nature. Nature, after all, is all about those who are prey, and those doing the preying. You have been given natural tools (arms, legs, a brain capable of creating weapons and armor) to defend yourself. Dying in a fight with a tiger is part of the natural order -- your natural gifts are fairly pitted against the tiger's natural gifts of stealth, speed, strength, teeth, and claws. Thus my quote about "Nature, red in tooth and claw." Dying in a fight with a Golem is unnatural because the Golem exists outside of Nature. If the Druid is about to die -- even from a natural attacker -- he's free to petition the Great Spirit, and we'll make a reaction roll to see if Nature decides whether to spare him to continue Her mission. |
|
03-20-2019, 03:44 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
|
03-21-2019, 08:06 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
Adding enhancements like Affects Other and Cosmic can “bump” a miracle into the next category (while adding genuine value), and limitations like Limited Use or Takes Recharge can help bring down a miracle that seems overpriced. If you feel that a Learned Prayer you're constructing is 'too cheap' and that its effects are too blatant or powerful for its 'minimum reaction' guideline, then add more enhancements until it fits a 'Good' reaction. Or don't; it might suit the setting and deity in question that blatant effects are something priests do on the regular, and these are guidelines, not hard and fast rules.
__________________
M2: Everything is true. GP: Even false things? M2: Even false things are true. GP: How can that be? M2: I don't know man, I didn't do it. |
|
03-21-2019, 08:50 AM | #19 | |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
Now, if you use the miracle to try and break your pact limitation, of course your learned prayers are going to stop working.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one! |
|
03-21-2019, 09:09 PM | #20 | ||
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
|
Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Quote:
Case in point: My player has built a simple prayer Razor Leaves (based on Universal Eggplant's spell https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com...nt-spells.html). Razor Leaves [1] The druid throws a handful of Yew leaves at the target doing 2d+2 small piercing. Roll vs Innate Attack (Projectile) to hit. Since the leaves are light, the max damage is only possible out to 5 yards, and max range is 50 yards. It requires a Ready maneuver to get the leaves ready to attack. Finding appropriate Yew leaves is difficult and time consuming. Innate Attack (Small Piercing, pi- 3/lvl, plus .3 lvl for each additional +1, 3*2.6=8) 2d+2 pi-, +8 - Divine, -10% - No Knockback, -10% PU8:16 (Missing Damage Effect) - Reduced Range, x1/2, -10% 1/2D 5, Max 50, Acc 3 - Requires Material Component, -10% - [-40%/5] Learned Prayer cost 5 x 0.2 = 1 pt. Required Divine Favor level [4] Given the Divine Favor guidelines (from page 5): Quote:
Unfortunately, the example prayers in the document are little help. For example, Spirit Weapon. That is such a convoluted prayer for so little damage. Is it just not allowed to have small, low cost damage prayers in Divine Favor? All because of the vague as hell (my opinion only), strictures on page 5? |
||
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|