[DF] Summoned allies questions:

[Stone Dog]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

GURPS does this perfectly well. See the Persistant and Mobile enhancements. Combined with Selective and Homing you can basically build an independent ally-like attack.

Yes, HERO can do the same think with Energy Blast too.

What Innate Attack can't do is give a 250 point character 375 points worth of destructive terror for 10 points. It can LOOK like a super Skull Spirit as it blasts its target, but it can't BE a super Skull Spirit.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Well yeah, which made people wonder why you brought it up.

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Johnny Thunder's ability to have a magic thunderbolt following his commands the instant he says Cei U!

Thunderbolt as an Ally:

• Appears in a second when Johnny says "Cei-U!"
• Acts independently as an NPC
• Can do things other than attack.
• Acts on it's own sequence.
• Can be attacked and killed.
• Unique.

A "magic thunderbolt":

• Appears instantly when Johnny takes an Attack Maneuver.
• Acts according to Johnny's commands.
• Can basically only attack
• Acts on Johnny's sequence.
• Cannot be attacked or destroyed.
• Multiple thunderbolts can be active at once.

What vitruvian describes sounds more like the latter than the former to me. I interpreted it as a radically different version of Johnny Thunder than the one I'm familiar with. I honestly have no idea how the original golden age version worked, or the JLU version works.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Thunderbolt as an Ally:

• Appears in a second when Johnny says "Cei-U!"
• Acts independently as an NPC
• Can do things other than attack.
• Acts on it's own sequence.
• Can be attacked and killed.
• Unique.

A "magic thunderbolt":

• Appears instantly when Johnny takes an Attack Maneuver.
• Acts according to Johnny's commands.
• Can basically only attack
• Acts on Johnny's sequence.
• Cannot be attacked or destroyed.
• Multiple thunderbolts can be active at once.

What vitruvian describes sounds more like the latter than the former to me. I interpreted it as a radically different version of Johnny Thunder than the one I'm familiar with. I honestly have no idea how the original golden age version worked, or the JLU version works.

No, it's the first. All I'm saying is that it's a defining characteristic of this Summonable Ally that the thunderbolt always shows up immediately (i.e., within a second), and there is never a delay in it showing up unless it's completely blocked and neutralized from showing at all.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Regarding your first point about the environment: It is true that there will be some allies for whom the environment is not a concern (that should not usually be the case in DF, I think). For those, I suppose you would just use whatever the 'average' delay time was for others.

Barring Sanctity levels, what does it matter to summoning a demon (or an angel) whether you're in jungle, forest, mountain, plains, or underground? Or for any planar summons, other than maybe elementals liking their own element?

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I wasn't referring to the JSA character. The post I was responding to said "a magic thunderbolt" not "The Genie 'Thunderbolt'".

It also said, "Johnny Thunder". I was indeed referring to the JSA character, whose 'magic thunderbolt' is effectively a genie, but rarely called anything other than his 'magic thunderbolt'.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The intent is that Ally (Summonable) works like any other switchable advantage, which by default requires one second. I wouldn't worry about travel times from other dimensions . . . these and creatures conjured on the spot just go "bamf!" and appear.

In that case, if your Summonable Ally is not of the type that pops in from other dimensions, but needs to physically travel from somewhere in the surrounding area (e.g., Aquaman with sea life, Tarzan in some cartoon versions, the aforementioned Thundermonkey with his uselessly late monkeys), is that worth a limitation?

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

GURPS does this perfectly well. See the Persistant and Mobile enhancements. Combined with Selective and Homing you can basically build an independent ally-like attack.


Except there's no indication in the comics that Thunderbolt is a instantaneous attack power as described.

I didn't describe it as an instantaneous attack power. I described it as an ally that shows up instantly to follow Johnny's commands.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

In that case, if your Summonable Ally is not of the type that pops in from other dimensions, but needs to physically travel from somewhere in the surrounding area (e.g., Aquaman with sea life, Tarzan in some cartoon versions, the aforementioned Thundermonkey with his uselessly late monkeys), is that worth a limitation?

Not in the rules as written, but as someone suggested above, the onset advantage seem good.
perhaps halving it, to represent the fact that an ally can come faster if he happen to be close ?

Celjabba

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

It also said, "Johnny Thunder". I was indeed referring to the JSA character, whose 'magic thunderbolt' is effectively a genie, but rarely called anything other than his 'magic thunderbolt'.

I'm familiar with it being called Thunderbolt (as a proper noun), and as I said I had no idea if you were referencing a different version with a thunderbolt with less individual personality and volition. Sorry I misunderstood you.

Originally Posted by vitruvian

I didn't describe it as an instantaneous attack power. I described it as an ally that shows up instantly to follow Johnny's commands.

If it shows up instantly, acts on the player's sequence, and can only attack, it should be built as an attack, not an ally.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

Not in the rules as written, but as someone suggested above, the onset advantage seem good.
perhaps halving it, to represent the fact that an ally can come faster if he happen to be close ?

Celjabba

I think I actually suggested that, and I wouldn't halve it at all. After all, if you wait to summon your troop of monkeys until you think you need them, and it takes an hour for them to show up, chances are the fight is completely over, you're nursing your bruises, and the delay is worth every bit of that -20%, remembering that all it's going to do is counteract some (a little bit) of the cost of Summonable.

Sure, you could make a habit of summoning the little buggers well before you think you'll need them, but then you'd be far better of forgetting about Summonable entirely and just having them hang around you all the time, since that's what you'll effectively be having them do anyway....