dungeon village

[hcobb]

The party has just hacked (but mostly burned) their way down through six levels of goblins, slimes and trolls, then they descend the stars to find themselves at the gates of that most improbable high fantasy trope, a dungeon village with no direct exits to the surface.

What does the dwarven village do and what and how do they trade? (And don't say gates, as I've shown that's already mathematically eliminated from contention.)

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DungeonShop

Which reminds me that dwarves are actually DX 12, not DX 6. It's just that they live underground and have no source of wood for torches.

[mark hill]

well maslows table of needs, right?

first, there must be a spring, well, river, lake etc

then food .. mushroom farms and snail herding? maybe fish

light .. maybe wasps for wax (and thus candles), maybe fish oil for lamps .. maybe some glowy fungus or insect (bottle of fireflies?)

underground, better have a wind flo thru (or co2 kills em) and some serious solution to sewage (or plague kills em) .. co2 is heavier than air, wants to go down hill in a closed environment (not that ANY dungeon design in the history of RPGs EVER considers this lol) .. maybe some kinda air pump system to the surface (if you care)

temperature must be bearable, burning wood is probably not gonna be the answer there, in fact any large scale burning is gonna make co2 issues worse .. natural heat source of some kind? lava, steam vent etc .. maybe dwarves have central heating, because dwarves :) this could be done like romans did it, ceramic pipes in walls and floor, convect or pump hot air or steam thru

.. which probably leads to clay mining and a brickworks/pottery with a large scale kiln

if dwarves, mining is probably gonna be a big thing .. gold, copper, coal, sulphur, salt .. something useful, and tradeable, with a good value-to-weight ratio

iron ore, perhaps converted to steel in a lava-powered furnace, then hand-manufactured into metal goods, maybe combined with other worked metals (tools, weapons, jewelry, belt buckles, nails, axles and wheel parts .. what have you)

trade might be conducted by a caravan of a dozen dwarves with backpacks .. maybe riverboats if you have very large waterways (with those treacherous bloody dark elves downriver) .. also, historically donkeys will work in mines (but probably wont breed down there)

after all that .. what do they do for entertainment and meaning?

[FireHorse]

It doesn't count as Cannibalism if they're not your species, right? I mean, even if they are sentient humanoids, it's not like those filthy Goblins are Dwarves… so it's not Cannibalism, right? Right?

I mean, we really tried to resist, but do you have any idea what the food is like down here? I swear, if I had to look at another bowl of snail & mushroom soup, I was gonna retch. And maybe go throw myself in the lava pit.

And besides, what were we supposed to do with a pile of dead Goblin scouts anyway? Leave 'em for the Trolls? If they didn't wanna get eaten, they should've stayed up top and left us alone!

Listen, the last meat I had was a stinking cave rat eight months ago, man! Don't judge me!

[mark hill]

terrible news .. we're outta snail, its slugs next week .. the big chewy yellow ones no one likes .. except Neil son of Neilson. Thank Enok for the salt mine!

[Sinanju]

This is why most of the dwarves in my world live on the surface, in villages, just like most everyone else. They grow crops, raise livestock, and so forth. They do all live within easy reach of deep, well-stocked, defensible fortresses (and mines). But they don't actually *live* in them most of the time.

I mean, even Snow White's dwarves lived in a cottage and marched off to work in the mines every morning....

[mark hill]

those barbarians didnt even wear chainmail! and they called themselves dwarves ..

Sleepy .. son of Taavi Sigfastirlaug .. just doesnt sound right at all lol

[thrash]

Historically, the people who got rich off gold rushes weren't the miners. They were the merchants who sold the things that the miners couldn't obtain or make for themselves and couldn't do without.

Extending the analogy to dungeon crawling, why risk one's neck on traps and room bosses, when there are adventurers to do it for you?

• Thoroughly clear and defend a "safe zone" about a day's travel from the surface.
• Map out one or (preferably) more reliable routes to the surface, bypassing the most dangerous areas; extra points for establishing diplomatic and trade relationships with (or paying "protection" to) denizen communities for safe passage.
• Organize convoys of pack trains to make the run to and from the entrances.
• Bring in loads of expendable supplies: food, alcohol, oil, potions, arrows/bolts, etc.
• Sell or trade them to adventurers working the lower levels (where, presumably, the best loot is still to be found) for whatever the market will bear.
• Offer to buy treasure items with the coin you collect.
• If you're confident in your security arrangements*, offer secondary services: escort to/from the surface, safe house, healing/physicking, treasure appraisal, curse removal, etc.

The more low-value density stuff (food, primarily) that you can produce on site, the less you have to pack down from the top. Same goes for buying and repairing broken, worn, or looted equipment (armor, weapons, tools, etc.).

The advantage over simple delving is focus: the "safe zone" can be extensively prepared; convoys can concentrate on speed and safety because they have only one goal. The end result, though, is that you get a cut of the wealth that comes out of the lower levels, without the uncertain business of finding and securing them yourself.

For adventurers, they can extend their range, depth, and dwell time for exploration, as well as avoid having to haul 6,000 copper coins and six rusty swords back to town just to make a profit.

* You have to be strong enough or well-defended enough that adventurers don't decide it's easier to knock you off and take what you've collected than go and dig up more for themselves. Ditto for monsters. Of course there will still be attempts to knock over the safe zone or ambush the convoys. You have to build this expectation into your business plan. Something on this scale can, however, be a much harder target than a half-dozen rootless adventurers.

[mark hill]

I suppose you COULD make a game about Counting Coins and Cartons .. but Im kinda Looking for Lairs and Labyrinths to pass the time .. you do you tho man .. you do you :)

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The party has just hacked (but mostly burned) their way down through six levels of goblins, slimes and trolls, then they descend the stars to find themselves at the gates of that most improbable high fantasy trope, a dungeon village with no direct exits to the surface.

What does the dwarven village do and what and how do they trade?

Asphyxiate, along with the party, due to all the burning and the lack of good ventilation?

[thrash]

Originally Posted by mark hill

I suppose you COULD make a game about Counting Coins and Cartons .. but Im kinda Looking for Lairs and Labyrinths to pass the time .. you do you tho man .. you do you :)

What can I say? Traveller fan since 1977.

No, hcobb asked for a rationale for the "dungeon village" trope. I'm not really suggesting that anyone play this, but (based on his past requests) any suggestion would have to be playable to be considered plausible.

Thinking through how to play the trope also provides context for when the actual PCs decide to ambush the convoy or try to cheat the village merchants. By rights, they should get trounced, but that may not be easy for the GM to manage if having to make things up on the fly.