Ruling on Cutty Shark

RaineAndrews · 06-25-2010, 07:43 PM

The bad stuff for Cutty Shark is "The first cutty's the deepest. Show yer hand and lose a level if ye have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with "cut".

I argued that since he could have a card with cut in his hand, and we couldn't disprove it, he had to show his hand. This is the intent of showing your hand.

However, since there is no period or comma separating "show your hand and lose a level if you have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with 'cut'" he argued that he did not have to show his hand, and that the two are combined bad stuff.

There is nothing in the FAQ or errata or search topics for this card, so I can't get my info from there.

Andrew Hackard · 06-25-2010, 09:02 PM

It is two separate instructions. You must show your hand, for exactly the reason you specify.

Munchykin · 06-25-2010, 09:20 PM

Erm, I don't get it..? It doesn't say If you have a card with "cut" in it THEN show your hand and lose a level for each. It says pretty plainly to show your hand AND do the additional stuff. AND is an inclusive term, it means that both things are to be done. OR would mean there was a choice. IF/THEN would mean that the action was contingent upon certain conditions being met. Not sure how a comma makes a difference. It actually makes the sentence nonsensical unless you add a comma and the conditional THEN after it. But that's not the case.

RaineAndrews · 06-25-2010, 10:21 PM

His argument was that it says to do both things if and only if he had a card with the word cut in it. The wording is bunched up to favor that kind of thinking to some people.

Do "THIS and THAT" IF you "have a card with cut in your hand or in play"

Kirt · 06-26-2010, 01:17 PM

Correct parsing (per Andrew above):

(Show yer hand)
and
(lose a level if ye have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with "cut".)

Incorrect parsing:

(Show yer hand and lose a level) if (ye have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with "cut".)

Nerftw · 06-26-2010, 02:12 PM

Not to mention you really have to stretch to not see the logic that the only way to prove you don't have a card in your hand is to show your hand.

Players like that really need to step back and realize it's okay to lose.

Andrew Hackard · 06-26-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchykin

Erm, I don't get it..?

The proper way to read the card is the way I described it above. I'm not sure what else there is to "get."

Munchykin · 06-27-2010, 03:34 PM

Think I was in the middle of typing my reply and got distracted and you posted while I was still typing. My post was a response to the original, not you your post. Sorry for any confusion...

06-25-2010, 07:43 PM	#1
RaineAndrews Join Date: Jun 2010	Ruling on Cutty Shark The bad stuff for Cutty Shark is "The first cutty's the deepest. Show yer hand and lose a level if ye have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with "cut". I argued that since he could have a card with cut in his hand, and we couldn't disprove it, he had to show his hand. This is the intent of showing your hand. However, since there is no period or comma separating "show your hand and lose a level if you have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with 'cut'" he argued that he did not have to show his hand, and that the two are combined bad stuff. There is nothing in the FAQ or errata or search topics for this card, so I can't get my info from there.

06-25-2010, 09:02 PM	#2
Andrew Hackard *Munchkin* Line Editor Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, TX	Re: Ruling on Cutty Shark It is two separate instructions. You must show your hand, for exactly the reason you specify. __________________ Andrew Hackard, *Munchkin* Line Editor If you have a question that isn't getting answered, we have a thread for that. Let people like what they like. Don't be a gamer hater. #PlayMunchkin on social media: Twitter \|\| Facebook \|\| Instagram \|\| YouTube Follow us on Kickstarter: Steve Jackson Games and Warehouse 23

06-25-2010, 09:20 PM	#3
Munchykin Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lawrence, MA	Re: Ruling on Cutty Shark Erm, I don't get it..? It doesn't say If you have a card with "cut" in it THEN show your hand and lose a level for each. It says pretty plainly to show your hand AND do the additional stuff. AND is an inclusive term, it means that both things are to be done. OR would mean there was a choice. IF/THEN would mean that the action was contingent upon certain conditions being met. Not sure how a comma makes a difference. It actually makes the sentence nonsensical unless you add a comma and the conditional THEN after it. But that's not the case.

06-25-2010, 10:21 PM	#4
RaineAndrews Join Date: Jun 2010	Re: Ruling on Cutty Shark His argument was that it says to do both things if and only if he had a card with the word cut in it. The wording is bunched up to favor that kind of thinking to some people. Do "THIS and THAT" IF you "have a card with cut in your hand or in play"

06-26-2010, 01:17 PM	#5
Kirt Join Date: Aug 2009	Re: Ruling on Cutty Shark Correct parsing (per Andrew above): (Show yer hand) and (lose a level if ye have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with "cut".) Incorrect parsing: (Show yer hand and lose a level) if (ye have any card, in hand or in play, that starts with "cut".) Last edited by Kirt; 06-26-2010 at 01:20 PM.

06-26-2010, 02:12 PM	#6
Nerftw Join Date: May 2010	Re: Ruling on Cutty Shark Not to mention you really have to stretch to not see the logic that the only way to prove you don't have a card in your hand is to show your hand. Players like that really need to step back and realize it's okay to lose.

06-27-2010, 03:34 PM	#8
Munchykin Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lawrence, MA	Re: Ruling on Cutty Shark Think I was in the middle of typing my reply and got distracted and you posted while I was still typing. My post was a response to the original, not you your post. Sorry for any confusion...