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Old 09-01-2008, 07:48 PM   #11
JCD
 
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
I wouldn't give someone who won the lottery a Status boost at all. Simply having a few millions of dollars isn't enough to make people react to you better, or make them more likely to listen to you. A millionaire tycoon doesn't have Status 6 because they have millions of dollars, they have Status 6 because they own a business empire that happens to pay them a very large salary.



Actually, I wouldn't bump a Role for winning the lottery, at least as a matter of course. Maybe if it was part of a plan, perhaps. But if the celestial just happened to buy a ticket and get lucky? Nuh-uh. A Role is about connections to people, but it's also about the paperwork. And winning the lottery will probably prompt some paperwork checks. The tax agencies will do some investigation, to make sure they get their cut. Journalists will do background research for stories on the winner. Neighbors will try to find details to better support requests for cash. :-) And so forth. If the celestial's Role isn't prepared for any of that, it could very well lead to the Role degenerating. In fact, I could see that as a cunning tactic for an opponent to use to degrade a Role.

To the first point, people disappoint.

To the second. You raise a fair point. By garnering all the attention from varoius people, he probably WOULD increase his role. After all, that is the position I am arguing. Suddenly having a bunch of tax officals, hangers on, lawyers, and lottery officials noticing you are alive would increase "belief" in people (albeit with some pointed questions regarding social security numbers).

In a purely computerized world, such would not be the case. Paperwork isn't the Symphony except for a bunch of flat notes which no one particularly likes except Azzy and Kronos.
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Old 09-02-2008, 03:11 AM   #12
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

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Originally Posted by JCD
To the second. You raise a fair point. By garnering all the attention from varoius people, he probably WOULD increase his role. After all, that is the position I am arguing. Suddenly having a bunch of tax officals, hangers on, lawyers, and lottery officials noticing you are alive would increase "belief" in people (albeit with some pointed questions regarding social security numbers).
But that's actually my point - unless the Role was prepared for that sort of scrutiny, a bunch of those people probably wouldn't come away with an increased belief in the person's reality. The tax officials would be suspicious over some of his income sources (got a few thousand bucks from a celestial Superior for a mission, spent the remainder on personal comforts), the journalists would have questions as to his backstory ("He says he was in university for four years, a decade ago. But which university? And what degree? And why can't we find any college buddies or anything?"), and the neighbors might start realizing that there were odd gaps in behavior ("Every few months, Bob gets kinda dumb, and forgets he knows people. Weird." I.e, the celestial has to go somewhere else for a bit and gets a gremlin/reliever to maintain the Role for a bit). And so forth. All these sorts of thing will make people question the Role's reality, and that leads to degradation.

In this sort of situation (a Role suddenly comes under a lot of public scrutiny), I'd make a roll against the Role level, and let it upgrade if the roll was made, or downgrade if the roll failed.
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

To use a metaphor, I see a Celestial as a gem of sharp edges. It's movements and interactions with the Symphony cut and shred.

Rubbing against people wears the edges down. Being thought of as an illegal or a spy still makes you something. It is being something that slips the Celestial through the threads without causing a ruckus.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

a role is a measure of how real your persona is. It is how thorough the paperwork is. It is whether or not there will be people that remember you from before. How far back there memories will go. How good of a background check it will stand up to. It is also how much the symphony accepts you. With out a role anytime you damage anything in the symphony you create a disturbance. Taken to it's extreme this could be interpreted as a small disturbance from the wear and tear on a car and the consumption of the gas as you drive down the street. Or an antique dealer that strips the varnish off a piece of furniture to repaint it could case a disturbance as he destroyed the top layer of the item.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

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Originally Posted by alexondria
a role is a measure of how real your persona is. It is how thorough the paperwork is. It is whether or not there will be people that remember you from before. How far back there memories will go. How good of a background check it will stand up to. It is also how much the symphony accepts you. With out a role anytime you damage anything in the symphony you create a disturbance. Taken to it's extreme this could be interpreted as a small disturbance from the wear and tear on a car and the consumption of the gas as you drive down the street. Or an antique dealer that strips the varnish off a piece of furniture to repaint it could case a disturbance as he destroyed the top layer of the item.
Let me ask you this. If a Belseraph of Valpua were able to create an in depth background, with all related documents, computer records etc but without any human interaction, would there be a role? Let us be a bit more specific. Gnash the Djinn, has to come from someplace. He wants to be from a little town in Kosovo which isn't anymore. So, he has a fist full of documents, a passport etc. Everyone else from that town is dead or dispersed. All he has is paper, not relationships.

Role? No Role?
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Old 09-02-2008, 03:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

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Originally Posted by JCD
Let me ask you this. If a Belseraph of Valpua were able to create an in depth background, with all related documents, computer records etc but without any human interaction, would there be a role? Let us be a bit more specific. Gnash the Djinn, has to come from someplace. He wants to be from a little town in Kosovo which isn't anymore. So, he has a fist full of documents, a passport etc. Everyone else from that town is dead or dispersed. All he has is paper, not relationships.

Role? No Role?
I'd say "Role/1, at best". Pages 112-113 of the Liber Servitorum indicate that documentation of a Role is secondary to actual interaction with people, but the documentation is also required to fit the Role into the Symphony.
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Old 09-02-2008, 04:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Ah, but I don't have that book. Thank you for the clarification.

Paperwork can reinforcebelief, but I don't find it an acceptable substitute for personal interaction.
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Old 09-02-2008, 04:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

What did they do before paperwork, btw? :)
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Old 09-02-2008, 05:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

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Originally Posted by JCD
What did they do before paperwork, btw? :)
Have other celestials with established roles vouch for you.
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Old 09-02-2008, 06:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Rubbing against people wears the edges down. Being thought of as an illegal or a spy still makes you something. It is being something that slips the Celestial through the threads without causing a ruckus.
Remember, though, that a Role is a role as something. You don't just have a Role as "Bob Smith". You have a Role as "Bob Smith, janitor", or "Bob Smith, college student", or "Bob Smith, gang member". It's the job description that's really important, since you can only disguise Disturbance that falls into that category. Any flaws in your backstory will tend to degrade the later part of the Role, since people will question why you're qualified for that job.
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